Copyright/NFL fabrics
08-18-2009, 07:55 AM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lexington, OK
Posts: 729
Great post, I wanted to ask about this too. I want to make a quilt to donate for auction or raffle with Harley Davidson on it but was reluctant because of these same issues.
Oklahoma University raided a craft show here not too long ago. The ladies were not using licensed products but were actually reproducing the logo and team name. It caused quite a stir at the craft fair!!
Oklahoma University raided a craft show here not too long ago. The ladies were not using licensed products but were actually reproducing the logo and team name. It caused quite a stir at the craft fair!!
08-18-2009, 08:06 AM
#12
Super Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tied up in Thread
Posts: 5,109
Originally Posted by billswife99
Great post, I wanted to ask about this too. I want to make a quilt to donate for auction or raffle with Harley Davidson on it but was reluctant because of these same issues.
Oklahoma University raided a craft show here not too long ago. The ladies were not using licensed products but were actually reproducing the logo and team name. It caused quite a stir at the craft fair!!
Oklahoma University raided a craft show here not too long ago. The ladies were not using licensed products but were actually reproducing the logo and team name. It caused quite a stir at the craft fair!!
08-18-2009, 01:54 PM
#14
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA
Posts: 9,093
i'm not a lawyer. this is purely opinion based on the what-my-tummy-says test.
i don't claim it's at all logical, but seeing new [allegedly] handmade items for sale in an online store (or at a flea market) just "feels" different than seeing them spread out on a craft sale table. it creates a far more commercial image.
at the table, i can look closely at the items and talk to the maker. i can get a better impression of whether they're truly handmade by that individual from legally purchased licensed fabric, or mass produced bootleg items being passed off as handmade (or handmade - but still mass produced - in sweatshops).
if it was me, i'd keep the receipts to prove i purchased the fabric legally; make sure to be very clear that the items made are not licensed or endorsed by the team (or whatever); set a reasonable price; and stroll comfortably to the LQS to spend the profits.
i don't claim it's at all logical, but seeing new [allegedly] handmade items for sale in an online store (or at a flea market) just "feels" different than seeing them spread out on a craft sale table. it creates a far more commercial image.
at the table, i can look closely at the items and talk to the maker. i can get a better impression of whether they're truly handmade by that individual from legally purchased licensed fabric, or mass produced bootleg items being passed off as handmade (or handmade - but still mass produced - in sweatshops).
if it was me, i'd keep the receipts to prove i purchased the fabric legally; make sure to be very clear that the items made are not licensed or endorsed by the team (or whatever); set a reasonable price; and stroll comfortably to the LQS to spend the profits.
08-18-2009, 02:43 PM
#15
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cookeville, TN
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by PatriceJ
i'm not a lawyer. this is purely opinion based on the what-my-tummy-says test.
i don't claim it's at all logical, but seeing new [allegedly] handmade items for sale in an online store (or at a flea market) just "feels" different than seeing them spread out on a craft sale table. it creates a far more commercial image.
at the table, i can look closely at the items and talk to the maker. i can get a better impression of whether they're truly handmade by that individual from legally purchased licensed fabric, or mass produced bootleg items being passed off as handmade (or handmade - but still mass produced - in sweatshops).
if it was me, i'd keep the receipts to prove i purchased the fabric legally; make sure to be very clear that the items made are not licensed or endorsed by the team (or whatever); set a reasonable price; and stroll comfortably to the LQS to spend the profits.
i don't claim it's at all logical, but seeing new [allegedly] handmade items for sale in an online store (or at a flea market) just "feels" different than seeing them spread out on a craft sale table. it creates a far more commercial image.
at the table, i can look closely at the items and talk to the maker. i can get a better impression of whether they're truly handmade by that individual from legally purchased licensed fabric, or mass produced bootleg items being passed off as handmade (or handmade - but still mass produced - in sweatshops).
if it was me, i'd keep the receipts to prove i purchased the fabric legally; make sure to be very clear that the items made are not licensed or endorsed by the team (or whatever); set a reasonable price; and stroll comfortably to the LQS to spend the profits.
08-19-2009, 07:53 AM
#16
Super Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orchard Park, NY (near Buffalo, which is near Niagara Falls)
Posts: 3,884
You don't even have to be using the fabric to make anything to be the recipient of a cease and desist order!
(I should preface this by saying that I manage a quilt shop, but came into the business via the craft show route. So I have both made items from fabric, as well as simply selling the fabric.)
A few years back every fabric manufacturer had a "Red Hat" collection. (These were not licensed fabrics, just groups that included red hat motifs.) But none of the makers dared name their collections "Red Hat" aanything. Marcus did, for a time, call theirs "Red Hat" but then they renamed it "Hats and Heels". Other companies named their lines "Fifty Plus", "Ladies who Lunch", "Accessorize" and so on. My shop carried many of these lines.
You can imagine my surprise when I received a cease-and-desist letter from one of the two Red Hat groups (I can't remember if it was the Red Hat Ladies or the Red Hat Society.) They were alleging trademark infringement because I had described the fabrics using the words "red hat". Now, seriously, what was I supposed to do? Say, "oh, we have this fabric, and it is purple, and it has hats on it and by the way they're red"?
That was the year I learned about Trademark law. At the time, both of the two "red hat" groups had been issued trademarks, but only as a social group, not for any types of merchandise at all. So they really had no legal leg to stand on, so to speak. And I worried, but ignored the letter.
Well, then I got a middle-of-the-night e-mail from the OTHER red hat group. Actually, from someone who claimed to be the founder of the group. Same thing, a cease-and-desist letter. But... if you do the math, she would have had to be fifty when she started the group, and this was many decades later, putting her somewhere in her mid-80's, at least. And I know that lots of people are bothered by insomnia at that age, but somehow I just can't imagine that they pass the hours at night by sending out scary e-mails full of "legalese"! So I worried but ignored this too.
Now Northcott has reprinted a few of their red hat group, "Red Hot Mamas". So now, to head off any troubles, we include this disclaimer on our website: "Please note that we are not affiliated in any way with the Red Hat Society or the Red Hat Ladies, and this is not an officially licensed product from either of those associations."
As to making items from licensed fabrics: I would definitely include a similar disclaimer, in the item description or on the hang tag if you're selling at craft shows/stores.
There's some interesting reading available on this website: http://www.tabberone.com/ Warning: some of it is quite "acidic"!
And, by the way, I don't harbor any ill feelings against either of the Red Hat groups.
(I should preface this by saying that I manage a quilt shop, but came into the business via the craft show route. So I have both made items from fabric, as well as simply selling the fabric.)
A few years back every fabric manufacturer had a "Red Hat" collection. (These were not licensed fabrics, just groups that included red hat motifs.) But none of the makers dared name their collections "Red Hat" aanything. Marcus did, for a time, call theirs "Red Hat" but then they renamed it "Hats and Heels". Other companies named their lines "Fifty Plus", "Ladies who Lunch", "Accessorize" and so on. My shop carried many of these lines.
You can imagine my surprise when I received a cease-and-desist letter from one of the two Red Hat groups (I can't remember if it was the Red Hat Ladies or the Red Hat Society.) They were alleging trademark infringement because I had described the fabrics using the words "red hat". Now, seriously, what was I supposed to do? Say, "oh, we have this fabric, and it is purple, and it has hats on it and by the way they're red"?
That was the year I learned about Trademark law. At the time, both of the two "red hat" groups had been issued trademarks, but only as a social group, not for any types of merchandise at all. So they really had no legal leg to stand on, so to speak. And I worried, but ignored the letter.
Well, then I got a middle-of-the-night e-mail from the OTHER red hat group. Actually, from someone who claimed to be the founder of the group. Same thing, a cease-and-desist letter. But... if you do the math, she would have had to be fifty when she started the group, and this was many decades later, putting her somewhere in her mid-80's, at least. And I know that lots of people are bothered by insomnia at that age, but somehow I just can't imagine that they pass the hours at night by sending out scary e-mails full of "legalese"! So I worried but ignored this too.
Now Northcott has reprinted a few of their red hat group, "Red Hot Mamas". So now, to head off any troubles, we include this disclaimer on our website: "Please note that we are not affiliated in any way with the Red Hat Society or the Red Hat Ladies, and this is not an officially licensed product from either of those associations."
As to making items from licensed fabrics: I would definitely include a similar disclaimer, in the item description or on the hang tag if you're selling at craft shows/stores.
There's some interesting reading available on this website: http://www.tabberone.com/ Warning: some of it is quite "acidic"!
And, by the way, I don't harbor any ill feelings against either of the Red Hat groups.
08-20-2009, 05:43 AM
#17
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hartsel, Colorado
Posts: 38
While the law allows you to use these fabrics to make and sell things, that does not mean the rights owner won't try to stop you. Sometimes they will even sue even though you are legally correct. They get away with these tactics because they know few small sewers will ever fight back. The cost of litigation is just too high.
M&M/Mars, Disney, Major League Baseball, Sanrio (Hello Kitty), Debbie Mumm and United Media (Peanuts) have all backed off in federal court when challenged by us over the use of their fabrics.
The "Red Hat" people would likely lose in federal court but no one wants to spend the money to make a point that doesn't need to be made. In my case it was a matter of defending my business and we represented ourselves.
Trademark abuse has become the new American Legal Pastime. Just about anyone can play.
M&M/Mars, Disney, Major League Baseball, Sanrio (Hello Kitty), Debbie Mumm and United Media (Peanuts) have all backed off in federal court when challenged by us over the use of their fabrics.
The "Red Hat" people would likely lose in federal court but no one wants to spend the money to make a point that doesn't need to be made. In my case it was a matter of defending my business and we represented ourselves.
Trademark abuse has become the new American Legal Pastime. Just about anyone can play.
08-20-2009, 08:04 AM
#18
Super Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orchard Park, NY (near Buffalo, which is near Niagara Falls)
Posts: 3,884
Kudos to you, Tabberone, for having the courage, and nerves of steel, to have stood your ground! Glad you chimed in on the forum, so that I could say that I have a ton of respect for your defending your rights.
(I became aware of your website back in the days of the Red Hat furor.)
(I became aware of your website back in the days of the Red Hat furor.)
08-23-2009, 01:49 PM
#19
Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: central Oklahoma
Posts: 74
My sister and her SIL sell items with OU and OSU decals, designs and fabric. They had to purchase a special license to do so. We have been to craft shows when the merchandise was removed because the venders did not have such a license.
08-23-2009, 02:15 PM
#20
Power Poster
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Front row
Posts: 14,646
My neighbor is a lawyer that handles copyright issues from time to time. So happens he is here talking with hubby. He laughed when he read this post. Said go ahead make your quilts from purchased fabric and sell or do what you want with them. Don't make you own fabric or logos using the license names without permission.
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