We had a USPS sales rep stop by on Tuesday, and I asked her to find out if really-stuffed envelopes are acceptable or not.

And... she researched the issue, and could not find any place where the rules say that the envelope has to be less than a certain thickness to qualify for the flat-rate price.

And you *can* tape over seams, and the flap closure, to reinforce those areas.

Thought those of you who are using these envelopes to ship your materials might like to know what the official word is.

Don't know how to advise you, though, if your own local Post Office is giving you grief about your envelopes. Other than to ask to talk to the PostMaster, armed ahead of time with all the definitions of what a Flat Rate Envelope is, printed off from their own website / Domestic Mail Manual (which is their "bible", so to speak).

It's been my experience that being a polite and knowledgeable customer, it's possible to ask the right questions so that they may reassess their position.

Thanks for the info Nan!!!

Thank you...at my branch, it depends on who takes it in...some will give you a hassle about anything.

From what I've been told the envelope must be able to close of its own accord (Like, you can't cut the flaps and retape them to make it work for you), and you may reinforce the seal with a single strip of tape, as long as it doesn't wrap around to the front.

Now, Flat Rate BOXES also say you may reinforce the tabs and flaps, I've never seen anything about reinforcing the bottom flap on the FRE. Never had one bust, but it *is* a sealed opening, you know?

I don't think there is a bottom flap on the FRE... but there are sealed (small) flaps on the sides.

We've had FREs returned to us from abroad (undeliverable, or unclaimed) and have never seen the side flaps give way, though frequently the corners and bottom edges are abraded away so that the package has some openings.

Keep in mind, though that those packages have gone twice the distance they should have!

^^^That's what I was thinking of...the side flaps!

When I ship soap the corners get all chewed up, so I know exactly what you're talking about!

I'm a 'tape it everywhere' kinda gal. So far no problems at the PO counter.

My postmistress says that it has to be able to close on it's own....you can tape it for extra security, but it must be closed all the way.

Definition of Priority Flat rate - If it fits it ships. There are assorted sizes from envelopes to parcels provided free from USPS. (If you over stuff, the contents are at risk.)

Definition of Priority Lg envelope - 12" high X 15" wide and no thicker than 3/4". your own envelope, not rigid and even thichness, no lumps. Next step is a parcel.(What a deal with the FRE.)

Side flaps on Priority FRE will give if they are exposed to moisture. This will happen with wet weather. It is impossible to shield hampers from rain when moving and not all facilities have covered docks. If the envelope is buldging I recommend plastic envelope/zip bag and tape to reinforce. This link may help - (Retired from the PO) http://www.usps.com/prices/first-class-mail-prices.htm

Our post ofice measures the thickness with a template if it does fit through easily they make you go to the next box.

I have seen my post office take the boxes that are taped so they will close because they were so stuffed full. I was told that if there is a bulge in the box, you may have difficulty with an insurance claim.

When I went to get my envelope for mailing, I was told they went up to $4.95 flat rate and that was for 13oz , if it is more, you will need more postage. Sent mine, hoping to find that she received it OK, had 18 blocks in it plus the envelope.

Hmmm... the weight limit for a flat rate envelope, sent anywhere in the US - is not 13oz., it is 70 POUNDS!

Which of course makes me wonder... what could I possibly fit into that envelope that would come even close to weighing that much??

And, by the way... just Friday we got word from a customer in Texas that her envelope containing just 6 yards of fabric was delivered postage due.

So that nice lady who told us that our envelopes were okay to send with 8 yards in them... she is going to be in touch with our customer's Post Office branch. I think I'm gonna let her fight this battle for me.

And I will let you know what happens!

Oh - and by the way - I had also called that local Post Office and was told that there is this memo circulating around various Post Offices showing pictures of what's acceptable and not acceptable for FRE's. Here's the link: http://www.theresellersforum.com/dawn/frp.pdf

Ummm... ya just gotta love the precision which with this issue is being addressed... right?? (Yes that was sarcasm. Click on the link and see for yourself.)

I heard that that memo has been, as Sarah would say, refudiated. It was meant for Critical Mail, not FRE. Anyway, we should all be using the new FR padded envelopes, much better for shipping fabric and books.

Gold, Nancy, pure gold! And that's just what you put in them every day!! ;-)

I just received a Priority envelope the other day with 3 spools of thread, a small notion, and a note that said $.65 due. I send things in a 3M envelope and it is half the price of Priority

During the last block swap, my post office rejected a return envelope that had tape over the stamps because they couldn't put the cancellation stamp directly over the postage.

I had received my FRE back from a swap, and it was only held together along the top flap by 2 inches! Yep! Was a good thing it was all put into a baggie inside!

That's why I ship most things by UPS. It doesn't cost much more with less hassle.

My PO used to not take FREs if they had tape on the flap. So I printed and showed them the page at the USPS website that said the flap can be reinforced with tape and since then, no problems. If I ship UPS I have to drive about 30 min to drop it off. With the PO they will pick it up or if I have to take it, it's 3 minutes away.

Sometimes Flat rate boxes or envelpes are not cheaper. I just sent an envelope of papers and a wall hanging to my DH in a brown envelope and it cost me 2.49 sent priority. My DS sent me a gift in the 23.50 FR box because it would not fit in any smaller and the box was half empty. I am sure she could have sent it for less money is using another box. Po usually gives you the cheapest method which is usually priority.

It wasn't priority if it was $2.49. The cheapest priority mail is around $5 now. If it's less than 13 oz it can go first class. Otherwise it's priority or parcel post (or media for books and stuff).

So... if it's already padded... USPS will expect it to be "fat"?

How many yards will fit into a padded envelope?

I'm a-wishing!!!

I have had so many issues since the first of the year. My PO will not take any boxes that do not lay completely flat. If there is any sort of small bulge in the box they will not accept it. Even though it is COMPLETELY closed on its own. I didn't even use any tape. They have really buckled down on the flat rate envelopes too. They are suppose to lay flat. They are an envelope not a package, so I have been told. I have sold a bunch of stuff and am in there on a regular basis. But I have gotten so much flack since Christmas it is ridiculous. On the envelopes I am allowed to put 2 very small pieces of tape on the top corners to hold down the opening but they do not accept anything if you tape down the flap. No tape is to be used on the box at all. So many rules. After the new year the prices have went up and now you have to ship less in each package.

I would take it to a different PO. Flat rate only means the rate is the same no matter what-it has nothing to do with the shape of the package.

Not true, *if* your local Post Office staff bothers to inform themselves about their own rules:

"When sealing a Priority Mail Flat Rate Envelope, the container flaps must be able to close within the normal folds. Tape may be applied to the flaps and seams to reinforce the container; provided the design of the container is not enlarged by opening the sides and the container is not reconstructed in any way."

Aaargh.

It's one thing if the Post Office on the sending end, rejects the package and sends it back to you. Unhappy though you may be, at least you know what's going on, and you have an opportunity to educate your local Post Office staff about their own rules.

It's quite another thing when the branch on the receiving end says "postage due". That creates a problem for the recipient... and sure doesn't make for a happy customer! For a business sender this is a real mess.

I've found the same with most post offices. We move around, a lot, and so I've had my share of experiences when it comes to the post office. My kids joke that I get "post office rage" instead of "road rage" like most people. But I don't think it's really a joke because no one ever wants to go to the post office with me LOL
I actually use one that's about 10 miles from my house vs the one that's about 3 miles from my house - I like the customer service at one over the other....

Oh, joy.

Had another customer (this one in California) report a FRE delivered postage due. I called her branch and spoke with the postmaster, who, being a truly nice guy, agreed to waive the postage so that all of us were happy.

He also gave me some info that sheds additional light on this issue.

Apparently a USPS ruling was issued on 12/28/10 stating that FREs must be no more than 3/4" thick.

And then a couple of days later, the ruling was reversed, saying that if it fits it ships. (Subject of course to the rules that already appear on the USPS website - regarding do not modify the envelope, must close with the adhesive being the means of closure, taping over the flap and seams are allowable.)

And my USPS Business Support Specialist reports another ruling; she says this is word for word what it says:

"Mail pieces presented for mailing in USPS produced Flat Rate packaging are NOT required to remain flat to be eligible for flat rate prices. The adhesive strip on the mail piece MUST be used to seal the flat rate packaging. However, while the glued flap must be able to seal the package before the addition of tape, the mail piece does not need to remain flat and the USE of TAPE IS permitted along the flaps and seams to reinforce the container provided the design of the container is not enlarged or reconstructed (e.g., opening the sides, extending the flap to make it seal, etc.)."

I use the envelopes to send books to my grandsons and they don't care at my PO how many books I put in and if I tape it shut it's okay. They need to be taped. We used them where I used to work and they will pop open if you don't tape them well.