Tension and thread problems ... again
07-05-2014, 01:39 PM
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
Tension and thread problems ... again
I've been working on my newly acquired blue Morse 200 clone. 
[ATTACH=CONFIG]481680[/ATTACH]
It's a pretty machine and runs oooh sooo quiet, but it had a few issues with the tensions.
>1st: No bobbin case.
I had a couple of spares so I picked the best and put it in.
>2nd: The presser foot lever would not release the top tension disks. Nothing I could do would make it release. There is nothing out of the ordinary with any of the parts. No burrs, I cleaned all the pieces thoroughly. Nothing appears to be bent. What I did find was an extra locating washer between the tension disks and the +/- ring. I took that out.
Also found a tiny bit of rust in the pocket the thread take up spring adjusting collar fits into. Cleaned that out.
Turns out the release pin was too short. I had to custom make a longer one so the top tension would release.
>3rd: The top tension was way too tight. I had that thing apart many many times and nothing would help. Removing the adjusting knob and spring and sewing basically without a top tension was much better. But that ain't right.
There is something "not right" with that top tension and face plate though. I can put one from one of my other clones on it and the tension works good. I just can't figure it out.
>4th: The top thread would fray and break when the machine was run fast and the tension was at or close to normal. That was caused by a chewed up hook. Check out the pic below:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]481677[/ATTACH]
You can clearly see the pits and pock marks in the hook. The only thing that could have caused this is an incorrect needle. In this case a 20x1.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]481678[/ATTACH]
Sorry about the blurry picture.
This is a 20x1 needle put in and slowly rotated until the needle and hook damage lined up. It's a perfect match.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]481684[/ATTACH]
The correct 15x1 needle didn't come anywhere near the damaged area.
The damage was so severe it was causing the thread to fray and break.
It took me 45 minutes to stone and polish the burrs off the hook surface. The gouges were so deep I could not remove them all.
Once the hook assembly was cleaned up and put back in I worked on the top tension again. No luck until I took the second washer out of the assembly.
Now I've got it so it will sew decently.
I'll do more tuning after I get it all cleaned up and re-oiled.
This thing better sew a nice as it looks when I get done with it. If it don't .... I'm gonna
Joe
[ATTACH=CONFIG]481680[/ATTACH]
It's a pretty machine and runs oooh sooo quiet, but it had a few issues with the tensions.
>1st: No bobbin case.
I had a couple of spares so I picked the best and put it in. >2nd: The presser foot lever would not release the top tension disks. Nothing I could do would make it release. There is nothing out of the ordinary with any of the parts. No burrs, I cleaned all the pieces thoroughly. Nothing appears to be bent. What I did find was an extra locating washer between the tension disks and the +/- ring. I took that out.
Also found a tiny bit of rust in the pocket the thread take up spring adjusting collar fits into. Cleaned that out.
Turns out the release pin was too short. I had to custom make a longer one so the top tension would release.
>3rd: The top tension was way too tight. I had that thing apart many many times and nothing would help. Removing the adjusting knob and spring and sewing basically without a top tension was much better. But that ain't right.
There is something "not right" with that top tension and face plate though. I can put one from one of my other clones on it and the tension works good. I just can't figure it out.
>4th: The top thread would fray and break when the machine was run fast and the tension was at or close to normal. That was caused by a chewed up hook. Check out the pic below:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]481677[/ATTACH]
You can clearly see the pits and pock marks in the hook. The only thing that could have caused this is an incorrect needle. In this case a 20x1.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]481678[/ATTACH]
Sorry about the blurry picture.
This is a 20x1 needle put in and slowly rotated until the needle and hook damage lined up. It's a perfect match.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]481684[/ATTACH]
The correct 15x1 needle didn't come anywhere near the damaged area.
The damage was so severe it was causing the thread to fray and break.
It took me 45 minutes to stone and polish the burrs off the hook surface. The gouges were so deep I could not remove them all.
Once the hook assembly was cleaned up and put back in I worked on the top tension again. No luck until I took the second washer out of the assembly.
Now I've got it so it will sew decently.
I'll do more tuning after I get it all cleaned up and re-oiled.
This thing better sew a nice as it looks when I get done with it. If it don't .... I'm gonna
Joe
Last edited by J Miller; 07-05-2014 at 01:44 PM.
07-06-2014, 05:37 AM
#6
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
Jim,
I'm worried about that too. But these clones do not have any method of changing the hook timing like Singers do. Everything is assembled and then pinned in place. The only adjustments are needle bar height and feed dog position.
There is "a" visible timing mark on the needle bar. When it's run down to BDC it's 2/64" to 3/64" below the bushing. This is consistent with all the clones I have that have a timing mark. Then when the needle bar is rotated up till the timing mark is at the bottom of the bushing the hook is late by maybe an 1/8th inch. I haven't tried to adjust the needle bar yet. I'm concerned that if I change the needle bar the needle will sit too low in it's stroke. I don't know and I don't have any manuals for the clones. They are a bit different from the Singers.
We'll see how it sews after I get it cleaned up and go from there.
Joe
I'm worried about that too. But these clones do not have any method of changing the hook timing like Singers do. Everything is assembled and then pinned in place. The only adjustments are needle bar height and feed dog position.
There is "a" visible timing mark on the needle bar. When it's run down to BDC it's 2/64" to 3/64" below the bushing. This is consistent with all the clones I have that have a timing mark. Then when the needle bar is rotated up till the timing mark is at the bottom of the bushing the hook is late by maybe an 1/8th inch. I haven't tried to adjust the needle bar yet. I'm concerned that if I change the needle bar the needle will sit too low in it's stroke. I don't know and I don't have any manuals for the clones. They are a bit different from the Singers.
We'll see how it sews after I get it cleaned up and go from there.
Joe
07-06-2014, 01:41 PM
#7
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Springfield Oregon
Posts: 1,481
I have to say that I don't look at marks or manuals much. I just put in a new needle and remove anything in the way from seeing the tip of the hook. Turning through to see the tip of the hook in relation to the eye of the needle. Funny how some old manuals even talk about fudging the needle position with certain fabrics and thread types. This is not news to you I'm sure, but new floks may not have seen it.
07-07-2014, 09:16 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
Jim,
Without a manual or more specs I'm a bit leery of altering the needle bar setting. I do know from visual inspection that when the timing mark is at the base of the bushing the hook is not where it should be.
I don't know if the timing was knocked out by the needle chewing up the hook or what. I've got to do some more comparisons with my other clones.
Right now I'm trying to get some other machines finished so I can put them on CL so this one is sitting for a while.
Joe
Without a manual or more specs I'm a bit leery of altering the needle bar setting. I do know from visual inspection that when the timing mark is at the base of the bushing the hook is not where it should be.
I don't know if the timing was knocked out by the needle chewing up the hook or what. I've got to do some more comparisons with my other clones.
Right now I'm trying to get some other machines finished so I can put them on CL so this one is sitting for a while.
Joe
07-07-2014, 10:01 AM
#9
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 177
http://tinkerbeth2.files.wordpress.c.../01/morse1.pdf
Here is a manual for the 200. I love Morse machines!
Debbie
Here is a manual for the 200. I love Morse machines!
Debbie
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