Copywrite conundrum
04-23-2024, 11:32 PM
#1
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Location: S.E. Queensland, Australia
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Copywrite conundrum
Several years ago I purchased what I thought was a pattern of a sampler quilt, and after opening found it only contained the outline drawing of all the blocks. No pattern, no measurements but for the block sizes. I did feel cheated. Now I wonder if it would breech copywrite if someone (not me) were to create a proper pattern of these blocks, after all there is nothing unusual about them and have probably been reproduced many times. It would just be the particular arrangement, not using any of that creators photos etc. I haven't even made that quilt yet, but it hangs on the wall near my computer teasing me, asking 'why not'.
04-24-2024, 03:26 AM
#2
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Greater Peoria, IL -- just moved!
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Not a lawyer but --
There are two main issues, one is "personal use" -- if you can draw it you can copy it down to the fabrics used, but you can't sell it. The second is that most blocks are in the public domain and can't be copyrighted -- but the directions or demonstrated techniques are what is copyrighted. Is why we do have lawyers but I would say that yes, written directions could be made and the blocks arranged in the same manner and it could be copyrighted and sold or taught as a class... but I'm not a lawyer!
When I started quilting it was before rotary cutters and the big resurgence of the craft. For the most part, all I had available to me were block books where there were no directions or sizes even, just line drawings maybe with light/medium/dark noted but no layout or yardages or whatever. Also had the reprints of the Newspaper artists, my first book was one of Ruby McKim patterns which had minimal directions. Here's a link to the Amazon page -- you can use the "read sample" button to see what I'm talking about.
https://www.amazon.com/101-Patchwork.../dp/0486207730
For me quilting has always been a blend of art, math, and how things go together. I think starting when I did gave me a certain freedom and comfort in selecting fabrics that people starting today don't have or take awhile to build up the confidence to change what someone else has designed.
There are two main issues, one is "personal use" -- if you can draw it you can copy it down to the fabrics used, but you can't sell it. The second is that most blocks are in the public domain and can't be copyrighted -- but the directions or demonstrated techniques are what is copyrighted. Is why we do have lawyers but I would say that yes, written directions could be made and the blocks arranged in the same manner and it could be copyrighted and sold or taught as a class... but I'm not a lawyer!
When I started quilting it was before rotary cutters and the big resurgence of the craft. For the most part, all I had available to me were block books where there were no directions or sizes even, just line drawings maybe with light/medium/dark noted but no layout or yardages or whatever. Also had the reprints of the Newspaper artists, my first book was one of Ruby McKim patterns which had minimal directions. Here's a link to the Amazon page -- you can use the "read sample" button to see what I'm talking about.
https://www.amazon.com/101-Patchwork.../dp/0486207730
For me quilting has always been a blend of art, math, and how things go together. I think starting when I did gave me a certain freedom and comfort in selecting fabrics that people starting today don't have or take awhile to build up the confidence to change what someone else has designed.
04-24-2024, 05:57 AM
#3
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 9,515
My understanding of this is the same as IceBlossom's. You can make it but not sell it or sell your instructions to make it. There have been several threads here concerning copyright of patterns. Lots of good info in them.
04-24-2024, 08:10 AM
#4
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,823
Wait a Minute!!!!
According to what Gay said, "it only contained the outline drawing of all the blocks".
That is a drawing, not a pattern. The drawings could be copyrighted. However, if it doesn't contain a pattern, instructions or measurements, then the pattern is not copyrighted, just the drawings. If Gay doesn't use the drawings, then she has not infringed on that person's copyright.
I think we tend to go overboard with copyright infringement paranoia. In reality, how many quilts are really original? What are the odds that no one has made that quilt in that arrangement pattern before? You have a copyright on the paper pattern you sell. It cannot be reproduced. That's about all you the rights a pattern maker has.
As an analogy, how many patterns have been published for a straight line shift dress? Every pattern maker has one. It is copyrighted by Simplicity, Vogue, New Look, etc.. However, that doesn't stop anyone from making a pattern for a shift dress, copyrighting it and selling it. It's the pattern itself that is copyrighted, not the design.
JMHO
bkay
According to what Gay said, "it only contained the outline drawing of all the blocks".
That is a drawing, not a pattern. The drawings could be copyrighted. However, if it doesn't contain a pattern, instructions or measurements, then the pattern is not copyrighted, just the drawings. If Gay doesn't use the drawings, then she has not infringed on that person's copyright.
I think we tend to go overboard with copyright infringement paranoia. In reality, how many quilts are really original? What are the odds that no one has made that quilt in that arrangement pattern before? You have a copyright on the paper pattern you sell. It cannot be reproduced. That's about all you the rights a pattern maker has.
As an analogy, how many patterns have been published for a straight line shift dress? Every pattern maker has one. It is copyrighted by Simplicity, Vogue, New Look, etc.. However, that doesn't stop anyone from making a pattern for a shift dress, copyrighting it and selling it. It's the pattern itself that is copyrighted, not the design.
JMHO
bkay
04-24-2024, 08:15 AM
#5
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Location: Pacific NW
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Copyright is on someone's actual work product. If YOU were to make a quilt, photograph, draw, or illustrate each step along the way, and write your own directions, that would be an original work that you could then copyright. You cannot use any part of your existing pattern in your pattern, because it is not your work product, it is someone else's.
04-25-2024, 03:33 AM
#7
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Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 1,916
If the quilt is a "sampler" where the block designs are public domain and historical type.....churn dash, missouri star, flying geese, Ohio star, drunkards path, four patch, nine patch, Kansas troubles....Yada, yada.....could go on and on, YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE YOUR BLOCKS AND NOT WORRY ABOUT COPYRIGHT. Even if someone copyrights a pattern (which is not official most of the time) all someone needs to do, is make alterations to the design, then no worry about copyright. Another example, what if you see a tile design in the floor at an ancient church in Europe (happened to me) and you take a photo and make a quilt from that design.?....NO worries here either. Claims of Copyright and "ownership" of already existing designs are not valid as far as I am concerned.
04-25-2024, 07:30 AM
#8
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pacific NW
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The people who really irritate me are the ones who forbid you from reverse engineering their designs (sorry, that's just how my brain works) or state that you're only allowed to make one quilt from their pattern. Give me a break.
04-25-2024, 12:38 PM
#9
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Location: Southern USA
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The people who really irritate me are the ones who forbid you from reverse engineering their designs (sorry, that's just how my brain works) or state that you're only allowed to make one quilt from their pattern. Give me a break.
Those are designer imposed rules not laws. Usually printed under the copyright law so it seems legit. No consequence at all in breaking those rules other then get the designer's nose out of joint.
Those are designer imposed rules not laws. Usually printed under the copyright law so it seems legit. No consequence at all in breaking those rules other then get the designer's nose out of joint.
04-26-2024, 04:44 AM
#10
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,823
I once bought a pattern for a wheelchair lap quilt. It was a simple pattern. I could have made it just by looking at the product on the internet.
However, when I got the pattern, it said I was not allowed to sell the lap quilt I made from the pattern. I contacted the seller and told her to refund my money, as I was not willing to abide by her "rules".(My sister is a TAG teacher. Her 5th grade students had a module on quilts. I helped her, as she doesn't sew past hemming a skirt. The kids donated their lap quilts to a Church for their needy.)
Even if she was able to enforce her rule, all I would have to do is change one little thing and her "copyright" wouldn't apply (make it 1 inch larger or add a pocket). The idea that someone thinks a copyright on a quilt pattern is enforceable is nuts. Is she/he really willing to hire a lawyer, and take you to court to enforce his/her copyright. It's just too expensive and the most they would get is a "cease and desist" order.
If you put a "c in a circle" on a quilt pattern, most people will abide by it and not copy the pattern and sell it. To go further than that is not reasonable. It's especially unreasonable when you don't state your additional rules/terms up front.
bkay
However, when I got the pattern, it said I was not allowed to sell the lap quilt I made from the pattern. I contacted the seller and told her to refund my money, as I was not willing to abide by her "rules".(My sister is a TAG teacher. Her 5th grade students had a module on quilts. I helped her, as she doesn't sew past hemming a skirt. The kids donated their lap quilts to a Church for their needy.)
Even if she was able to enforce her rule, all I would have to do is change one little thing and her "copyright" wouldn't apply (make it 1 inch larger or add a pocket). The idea that someone thinks a copyright on a quilt pattern is enforceable is nuts. Is she/he really willing to hire a lawyer, and take you to court to enforce his/her copyright. It's just too expensive and the most they would get is a "cease and desist" order.
If you put a "c in a circle" on a quilt pattern, most people will abide by it and not copy the pattern and sell it. To go further than that is not reasonable. It's especially unreasonable when you don't state your additional rules/terms up front.
bkay
