206x13 needles
05-04-2013, 04:33 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bunker Hill, IL
Posts: 101
206x13 needles
I need to order some needles for my "new to me" singer 306w. I see that allbrands lists that an organ 24x1 is almost identical and can be used with a slight timing adjustment. Anyone have any thoughts about using a 24x1. I really only see 12's and 14's for purchase.
05-04-2013, 05:13 AM
#2
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
I don't think I'd like to change the timing of my machine while the correct 206-13s can still be had.
>Sew-Classic has them: { http://www.shop.sew-classic.com/206x...eedles_c46.htm }
>All Brands sells them by the bulk: { http://www.allbrands.com/search?sear...r_by=relevance } so why alter your machine.
>There is also an industrial needle that can be substituted for the 206-13 with no machine alterations and that's the DBx1. ( AKA: 16x95, 16x231, 16x257, DBx257, 287WH, 1738, 1738A ) When the use of this needle is mentioned the nay sayers get their panties in a wad and usually go ballistic claiming these are the same as a 15x1 and will ruin the bobbin case. They are not, they do work and I'm not the only one who's tested them. And they can be had.
So, stick with the original needles, they are available in a number of places.
Joe
Originally Posted by AllBrands
<snip> Organ 24x1 needles are almost identical. With a slight timing adjustment the needles can be used.
>All Brands sells them by the bulk: { http://www.allbrands.com/search?sear...r_by=relevance } so why alter your machine.
>There is also an industrial needle that can be substituted for the 206-13 with no machine alterations and that's the DBx1. ( AKA: 16x95, 16x231, 16x257, DBx257, 287WH, 1738, 1738A ) When the use of this needle is mentioned the nay sayers get their panties in a wad and usually go ballistic claiming these are the same as a 15x1 and will ruin the bobbin case. They are not, they do work and I'm not the only one who's tested them. And they can be had.
So, stick with the original needles, they are available in a number of places.
Joe
05-04-2013, 05:57 AM
#3
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,850
When I got mine a few months ago it came with the user book which said to use these special needles. I did lots of Internet research into the needles and consensus was what Joe said: The correct needles are available so don't fiddle with the machine's timing. Logically, if the machines *could* be made to work effectively with the common 15x1, the machine would have been made like that. Google it, and you'll find a lot of folk telling you of the disaster of changing the timing.
I found that my local shop (sewparts in Melbourne) had a good stock of the correct needles for a cheap price. If they hadn't had them, I'd have ordered a large number from ebay (local shop was way cheaper, incidentally, 60 cents each) rather than modifying a perfectly fine machine.
It just makes no sense to change it from the correct timing.
Mike
I found that my local shop (sewparts in Melbourne) had a good stock of the correct needles for a cheap price. If they hadn't had them, I'd have ordered a large number from ebay (local shop was way cheaper, incidentally, 60 cents each) rather than modifying a perfectly fine machine.
It just makes no sense to change it from the correct timing.
Mike
05-04-2013, 06:32 AM
#5
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern CA near Sacramento
Posts: 1,107
The 206, 306, 319,etc take a flat shank needle.
Cathy
Cathy
Originally Posted by Mitch's mom
Joe - Does the 306 use a round shank needle? I never paid much attention because I have always passed any machines using 206 needles on to a friend of mine.
05-04-2013, 07:45 AM
#6
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern CA near Sacramento
Posts: 1,107
The timing length on the 24X1 needle is 28.2mm, the timing length on the 206X13 is 33.9mm. These are not the same at all. The timing length is the top of the shank to the top of the eye.
The 206X13 needle is still available, but in limited sizes, so please don't retime the machine.
Cathy
The 206X13 needle is still available, but in limited sizes, so please don't retime the machine.
Cathy
Originally Posted by Grandma Nancy
I need to order some needles for my "new to me" singer 306w. I see that allbrands lists that an organ 24x1 is almost identical and can be used with a slight timing adjustment. Anyone have any thoughts about using a 24x1. I really only see 12's and 14's for purchase.
05-04-2013, 08:18 AM
#7
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern CA near Sacramento
Posts: 1,107
I guess that I am one of those who gets her panties in a wad. (so uncomfortable LOL) But the DBX1 is not the same as a 15x1. The 15x1 is a flat shank and the DBX1 is a round shank. However, the timing length (top of shank to top of the eye) is the same. And most later model machines that take a flat shank will not take a round shank.
The real difference is the length after the point. If a DBX1 needle will fit in the 206 the point may hit the bobbincase, it depends on the whether or not the bobbincase is the open style or not. But one also needs to consider that the longer point may not clear the fabric at the point that the feeddogs start moving or hit the fabric while the feeddog are still moving.This can be a problem with thicker fabrics. One might not think that the slight point difference is a problem, but if you have timed a machine you know that very tiny differences can have a big impact.
Here is a picture that shows the point differences. Note that the DBX1 from different manufacturers will have different length tips.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]411709[/ATTACH]
Cathy
The real difference is the length after the point. If a DBX1 needle will fit in the 206 the point may hit the bobbincase, it depends on the whether or not the bobbincase is the open style or not. But one also needs to consider that the longer point may not clear the fabric at the point that the feeddogs start moving or hit the fabric while the feeddog are still moving.This can be a problem with thicker fabrics. One might not think that the slight point difference is a problem, but if you have timed a machine you know that very tiny differences can have a big impact.
Here is a picture that shows the point differences. Note that the DBX1 from different manufacturers will have different length tips.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]411709[/ATTACH]
Cathy
Originally Posted by J Miller
When the use of this needle is mentioned the nay sayers get their panties in a wad and usually go ballistic claiming these are the same as a 15x1 and will ruin the bobbin case.
So, stick with the original needles, they are available in a number of places.
Joe
So, stick with the original needles, they are available in a number of places.
Joe
05-04-2013, 09:33 AM
#8
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
Cathy,
Got your emails and responded. I think I'll post my response here since you said the same thing. Hope you don't mind.
Joe
Got your emails and responded. I think I'll post my response here since you said the same thing. Hope you don't mind.
Originally Posted by J Miller from email
Cathy,
I've read all of that from numerous sources and I've not only seen the needle comparison photos, I done it myself. Ed Lamoureux has an article on his blog { http://sewing-machines.blogspot.com/ } about bobbin case damage from 15x1 needles with good clear pictures. I can't find that entry now, the link was in my other HD.
What I know is that on our 319K which has the closed top bobbin case, the DBx1 needles work properly.
I do know they are round shank, but it's easy to orient them manually.
When we first tried them I got several samples from Ed Lamoureux on the SewingForum.com.
He and Cyndy Kitt in Australia were doing experiments on those needles so I got the samples from him.
At first I put the needle in and turned the machine by hand in SS and then in ZZ. It didn't hit the case at all.
Then my wife sewed a number of things including multi layers of denim with good results.
So, at least three of us have found that the DBx1 needles do work in machines that use the 206-13.
I do not undertake substitute needles lightly. I had no desire to damage my wife's baby and incur her wrath!
I also use substitute MY1014 needles in my ancient Minnesota Mdl B because they are much easier to find and less expensive than the Boye 10 or Davis Long it should use.
I use the DCx1F needles in my Kenmore 120-491 because the Kenmore 49 or Boye 2½ are rareium.
When I try substitute needles I take it slowly and make sure the machine I am working on will not have problems with them. I do not assume ( and have never said so ) that all machines will work with substitute needles. I've said this before on QB, Stitchers Guild Sewing Forum, and the old SewForum.com.
Perhaps I should put together a paragraph in great detail and put it on a Word file for the next time. At least then I'd know where it was. LOL.
I've read all of that from numerous sources and I've not only seen the needle comparison photos, I done it myself. Ed Lamoureux has an article on his blog { http://sewing-machines.blogspot.com/ } about bobbin case damage from 15x1 needles with good clear pictures. I can't find that entry now, the link was in my other HD.
What I know is that on our 319K which has the closed top bobbin case, the DBx1 needles work properly.
I do know they are round shank, but it's easy to orient them manually.
When we first tried them I got several samples from Ed Lamoureux on the SewingForum.com.
He and Cyndy Kitt in Australia were doing experiments on those needles so I got the samples from him.
At first I put the needle in and turned the machine by hand in SS and then in ZZ. It didn't hit the case at all.
Then my wife sewed a number of things including multi layers of denim with good results.
So, at least three of us have found that the DBx1 needles do work in machines that use the 206-13.
I do not undertake substitute needles lightly. I had no desire to damage my wife's baby and incur her wrath!
I also use substitute MY1014 needles in my ancient Minnesota Mdl B because they are much easier to find and less expensive than the Boye 10 or Davis Long it should use.
I use the DCx1F needles in my Kenmore 120-491 because the Kenmore 49 or Boye 2½ are rareium.
When I try substitute needles I take it slowly and make sure the machine I am working on will not have problems with them. I do not assume ( and have never said so ) that all machines will work with substitute needles. I've said this before on QB, Stitchers Guild Sewing Forum, and the old SewForum.com.
Perhaps I should put together a paragraph in great detail and put it on a Word file for the next time. At least then I'd know where it was. LOL.
Joe
05-04-2013, 09:36 AM
#9
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
Originally Posted by Mitch's mom
Joe - Does the 306 use a round shank needle? I never paid much attention because I have always passed any machines using 206 needles on to a friend of mine.
I do this with my Minnesota B and Singer 9W-7 as well.
Joe
05-04-2013, 09:44 AM
#10
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northern CA near Sacramento
Posts: 1,107
Joe,
No. I don't mind at all.
There is a lot of of information and opinions to share.
Cathy
No. I don't mind at all.
There is a lot of of information and opinions to share.
Cathy
Originally Posted by J Miller
Cathy,
Got your emails and responded. I think I'll post my response here since you said the same thing. Hope you don't mind.
[/FONT]
Joe
Got your emails and responded. I think I'll post my response here since you said the same thing. Hope you don't mind.
[/FONT]
Joe
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