frudemoo

Having problems with figuring out what type of needle my two Phoenix machines take.

Both machines came with a flat shank needle inserted. Before I got my latest Phoenix, the manuals I had checked say that the machines take a system 1738 needle, which appears to be a round shank industrial needle. I have experimented with these in my Phoenix 250 treadle and haven't had success getting the machine to make a proper stitch.

Now that I have the manual for my 283F, it clearly pictures a flat shank needle, but it still says: system 1738. Am I missing something?? I can't find reference to flat shank 1738 needles online, so I thought I would seek help here. Hope someone can help!

TIA
Amelia

Caroline S

http://www.universalsewing.com/tek9....=needles_other

You might check the chart in the link above. You could also contact the company as there is a contact link. I have book marked the site for reference.

miriam

Cathy (mizkaki) has needles and is very knowledgeable about needles.

Mizkaki

Amelia,

The 1738 needle system sometimes know as a DBx1/ 287/16x1/or 287 are the same length as a standard household needle/ 15x1. The flat shank needles that came with your machines were probably 15x1s. The difference to you will be in the shank diameter. If the fat/ 2.02 mm shanked 15x1 fits your machine then any DBx1 will fit. If they don't fit then you will need the skinnier shank of the DBx1 which is usually 1.63 mm. I say probably because different manufacturers put them out in different diameters. Organ brand is usually a skinny one.

You said you had problems getting a proper stitch from a 1738. They have to be manually oriented, whereas a flat shank orients itself. Looks like your machine threads front to back. Correct? If so make sure that the long groove of the needle forward.

Talking to River and Fawkes nicely never hurts.

Hopefully that helps,
Cathy

path49

I don't like to disagree but, DBx1s are shorter than 15x1s....approx. 1.5 mm shorter. I thought they were & I just compared them...my serger takes DBx1s so I had some to compare.

Mizkaki

I also hate to disagree, but by industry standards the timing length of both the 15x1 and DBx1 is 33.9mm.
Timing length is from the top of the shank to the top of the eye. Total length can be different due to tip differences.

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trivia42

^ I had the same experience when comparing my Schmetz to Organ needles. Organ's are shorter. I can't tell you why but it's always happened that way, IMHO.

Mizkaki

Were you noticing the total length difference or the timing length difference?
If the Organ needle's timing length was shorter it could cause skipped stitches because the point of the hook would then intersect with the needle at the eye and not above it as it should.

Cathy

path49

I agree...the timing length is the same but a longer tip can cause problems in any machine that doesn't have a vibrating shuttle. Also, it appears that the length difference is a little greater in Organ needles...as compared to the Schmetz.

Mizkaki

Yes, the longer tip came cause problems with a rotary hook due to the possibility of hitting the bobbincase. I've seen that with the various tip lengths (different Boye tube numbers) in the 20x1 needles.

Cathy