New Winselmann owner, 20 questions - image heavy
07-28-2012, 04:05 PM
#1
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New Winselmann owner, 20 questions - image heavy
I'm so sorry for the deluge of questions. I can find so little information online for it, and it's a little foreign to me.
K,.. so I got the machine home last night, cleaned it up, and oiled it.
In the meantime, I may have introduced 2 small problems, and found one really big one, that one's fixed but related to a question.
So, here it goes:
1. First problem I introduced: While disassembling the face plate to clean and oil, I managed to have the needle bar drop out, and so didn't see where it was sitting on the erm,. cam pin (that's what the DH calls it)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352004[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352005[/ATTACH]
I think that this will only fit one way, but my question was: is it possible that I could have it 180 degrees from correct? Or do I need to stop worrying? Basically, can it be on the back swing instead of the fore swing if I installed the needlebar wrong, or is it even possible?
2. The second issue I introduced: Then I pulled this takeup lever, I neglected to notice which position the spring was in. Below or above. I reassembled, and believe it to be right, but I'm hoping someone can confirm.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352016[/ATTACH]
3. The big but fixed issue that leads to a question: Timing. Last night I was cleaning and oiling, etc, and when I noticed that the feed dogs weren't moving (and the shuttle wasn't transversing), I investigated and found the "differential" separated.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352010[/ATTACH]
At the time, I just loosened the set screws on the horizontal shaft, and slid it to the left to engage the vertical shaft. I didn't consider the timing. (It was late, I shouldn't have been working on it.) I discovered that the needle was fully down about the time that the rear of the shuttle was passing go. This seemed to be a timing issue. This morning, I rotated the horizontal shaft 180 degrees, and the needle is fully down, just before the boat arrives. Should I consider this OK, and move onto the other issues in my sewing room?
4. What the heck does this part do? I have to swing it out of the way to wind the bobbin or the winder hits it before contacting the hand wheel, and it has a hole through the pin at the bottom, wide enough for thread to pass through.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352013[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352014[/ATTACH]
5. Since we're chatting about bobbin winding, does this look threaded right? I threw the bobbin I had wound last night on it, so the green thread just goes to the right of the bobbin, not through the hole and pinched between the bracket and the bobbin, but otherwise, does it look right? It wound nicely, so I thought it was, but again, no manual, and worth asking.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352017[/ATTACH]
6. Is this a timing line? What should be where when it's somewhere?
How many of you did I just lose? I may have lost myself on that one.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352015[/ATTACH]
7. While we're still on that picture, I know what the presser foot adjustment is for, and what the tension adjustment is for. What's the adjustment on the needlebar? When I screw it down, the takeup lever moves downward. Why would I want this?
8. I was going to have a bunch of questions about timing and the position of the shuttle when the needle was in the up position, down position, and where it was when the timing mark was right at the top of the front plate, because I couldn't make the machine bring the bobbin thread up. Then I had a "moment", and turned the wheel backwards, instead of the forward I'm used to, and it brought the thread up. Uhm,... warning: possibly dumbest question of the century: Does this machine sew by turning the hand wheel away from me, instead of toward? LOL! I spent probably 2 hours trying to make it bring the bobbin thread up turning it forward, because it's been drilled into me that you "always" turn the hand wheel towards you... I once met a Wheeler and Wilson that turned away, so I know it's a possibility.
9. Does this look right? It threads differently than a Singer New Family, or a model 12, which both look similar, so I downloaded their manuals. They're virtually the same til you get to the shuttle.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352018[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352019[/ATTACH]
The tension on this seems awfully heavy when it's threaded like this, but I don't see a(n obvious) way to change the tension.
10. I only have 1 needle, and it's slightly bent. I think I read online that they are a #182, but I'm not positive what that means. Does anyone know where to get the needles, and what to look for when I get there? (How to identify them as being the right ones.)
11. Any idea what model this is? When I go online, I can find more information about the Vestas, but I think having a model would make it easier to search. Under the Winselmann name on the arm, it says" Verbeterde Staabiaaimachine (I think that's the spelling of the second word, it's worn off in the "abiaa" area.) And on the badge it says Winselmann Nahmaschine Deutsche Industrie
So,... that's not quite 20 questions, I guess I reserve the rest for questions that come from answers and from me getting a chance to sit down and use it.
K,.. so I got the machine home last night, cleaned it up, and oiled it.
In the meantime, I may have introduced 2 small problems, and found one really big one, that one's fixed but related to a question.
So, here it goes:
1. First problem I introduced: While disassembling the face plate to clean and oil, I managed to have the needle bar drop out, and so didn't see where it was sitting on the erm,. cam pin (that's what the DH calls it)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352004[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352005[/ATTACH]
I think that this will only fit one way, but my question was: is it possible that I could have it 180 degrees from correct? Or do I need to stop worrying? Basically, can it be on the back swing instead of the fore swing if I installed the needlebar wrong, or is it even possible?
2. The second issue I introduced: Then I pulled this takeup lever, I neglected to notice which position the spring was in. Below or above. I reassembled, and believe it to be right, but I'm hoping someone can confirm.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352016[/ATTACH]
3. The big but fixed issue that leads to a question: Timing. Last night I was cleaning and oiling, etc, and when I noticed that the feed dogs weren't moving (and the shuttle wasn't transversing), I investigated and found the "differential" separated.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352010[/ATTACH]
At the time, I just loosened the set screws on the horizontal shaft, and slid it to the left to engage the vertical shaft. I didn't consider the timing. (It was late, I shouldn't have been working on it.) I discovered that the needle was fully down about the time that the rear of the shuttle was passing go. This seemed to be a timing issue. This morning, I rotated the horizontal shaft 180 degrees, and the needle is fully down, just before the boat arrives. Should I consider this OK, and move onto the other issues in my sewing room?
4. What the heck does this part do? I have to swing it out of the way to wind the bobbin or the winder hits it before contacting the hand wheel, and it has a hole through the pin at the bottom, wide enough for thread to pass through.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352013[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352014[/ATTACH]
5. Since we're chatting about bobbin winding, does this look threaded right? I threw the bobbin I had wound last night on it, so the green thread just goes to the right of the bobbin, not through the hole and pinched between the bracket and the bobbin, but otherwise, does it look right? It wound nicely, so I thought it was, but again, no manual, and worth asking.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352017[/ATTACH]
6. Is this a timing line? What should be where when it's somewhere?
How many of you did I just lose? I may have lost myself on that one. [ATTACH=CONFIG]352015[/ATTACH]
7. While we're still on that picture, I know what the presser foot adjustment is for, and what the tension adjustment is for. What's the adjustment on the needlebar? When I screw it down, the takeup lever moves downward. Why would I want this?
8. I was going to have a bunch of questions about timing and the position of the shuttle when the needle was in the up position, down position, and where it was when the timing mark was right at the top of the front plate, because I couldn't make the machine bring the bobbin thread up. Then I had a "moment", and turned the wheel backwards, instead of the forward I'm used to, and it brought the thread up. Uhm,... warning: possibly dumbest question of the century: Does this machine sew by turning the hand wheel away from me, instead of toward? LOL! I spent probably 2 hours trying to make it bring the bobbin thread up turning it forward, because it's been drilled into me that you "always" turn the hand wheel towards you... I once met a Wheeler and Wilson that turned away, so I know it's a possibility.
9. Does this look right? It threads differently than a Singer New Family, or a model 12, which both look similar, so I downloaded their manuals. They're virtually the same til you get to the shuttle.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352018[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352019[/ATTACH]
The tension on this seems awfully heavy when it's threaded like this, but I don't see a(n obvious) way to change the tension.
10. I only have 1 needle, and it's slightly bent. I think I read online that they are a #182, but I'm not positive what that means. Does anyone know where to get the needles, and what to look for when I get there? (How to identify them as being the right ones.)
11. Any idea what model this is? When I go online, I can find more information about the Vestas, but I think having a model would make it easier to search. Under the Winselmann name on the arm, it says" Verbeterde Staabiaaimachine (I think that's the spelling of the second word, it's worn off in the "abiaa" area.) And on the badge it says Winselmann Nahmaschine Deutsche Industrie
So,... that's not quite 20 questions, I guess I reserve the rest for questions that come from answers and from me getting a chance to sit down and use it.
Last edited by ArchaicArcane; 07-28-2012 at 04:11 PM.
07-28-2012, 04:46 PM
#2
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
Weirdest thing.... It will stitch, badly by turning the wheel backward, but fabric feeds toward me. This is clearly not right, and I'm convinced it's not supposed to have the wheel turned backward.
Here's the kicker, it won't stitch turning the wheel toward me. It behaves exactly like my model 27 does if you turn the hand wheel the wrong way. I know the tension was way loose on the top too, because the stitch it made while turning the handwheel backwards looks like a chainstitch. That nearly knocked me on my backside when I saw that!
I can't help thinking it's that needlebar and cam I mentioned at the beginning, but I'm certainly open to any suggestions.
p.s. I found the bobbin tension adjustment. Will address that momentarily.
Here's the kicker, it won't stitch turning the wheel toward me. It behaves exactly like my model 27 does if you turn the hand wheel the wrong way. I know the tension was way loose on the top too, because the stitch it made while turning the handwheel backwards looks like a chainstitch. That nearly knocked me on my backside when I saw that!
I can't help thinking it's that needlebar and cam I mentioned at the beginning, but I'm certainly open to any suggestions.
p.s. I found the bobbin tension adjustment. Will address that momentarily.
Last edited by ArchaicArcane; 07-28-2012 at 04:48 PM.
07-28-2012, 05:01 PM
#3
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millville, NJ
Posts: 1,835
Hi,
Nice Winselman. Your Titan shares many characteristics of the Singer Model 12 or New Family. Main difference is in the bobbin winding systems. Attached is Singer 12 manual which is what I used to work on my Gritzner, mainly cause I couldn't find a German machine manual:
http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...12k-manual.pdf
Good Luck----Jon
Jon
Nice Winselman. Your Titan shares many characteristics of the Singer Model 12 or New Family. Main difference is in the bobbin winding systems. Attached is Singer 12 manual which is what I used to work on my Gritzner, mainly cause I couldn't find a German machine manual:
http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...12k-manual.pdf
Good Luck----Jon
Jon
07-28-2012, 06:05 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Not Here
Posts: 3,817
1. Nevermind. She sews!!!
3. This was the problem. There IS another timing mark if you clean off enough of the crud. The DH spotted it, and timed her for me. Trust a good shade tree mechanic to fix your cams and differential any day!!
6. Yes, It's a timing line. Use it and make sure it's JUST peeking over the top of the face plate when the "dot" on the vertical cam (under all of the gunk above the teeth) is exactly in front of you. Then it will sew. Yay!!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352015[/ATTACH]
8. It's a forward crank. Apparently youcan make it stitch by cranking away from you if the timing is off enough.
9. It's right enough to sew. Now I just have to balance the tensions so it's sane to sew with.
And I'm adding a question.
12. How do I know if the needle is high enough / too high in the clamp? I'm used to needles with flats, and a way to bottom out....
3. This was the problem. There IS another timing mark if you clean off enough of the crud. The DH spotted it, and timed her for me. Trust a good shade tree mechanic to fix your cams and differential any day!!
6. Yes, It's a timing line. Use it and make sure it's JUST peeking over the top of the face plate when the "dot" on the vertical cam (under all of the gunk above the teeth) is exactly in front of you. Then it will sew. Yay!!
[ATTACH=CONFIG]352015[/ATTACH]
8. It's a forward crank. Apparently youcan make it stitch by cranking away from you if the timing is off enough.
9. It's right enough to sew. Now I just have to balance the tensions so it's sane to sew with.
And I'm adding a question.
12. How do I know if the needle is high enough / too high in the clamp? I'm used to needles with flats, and a way to bottom out....
07-30-2012, 07:16 PM
#7
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Posts: 3,817
Originally Posted by jlhmnj
Nice Winselman. Your Titan shares many characteristics of the Singer Model 12 or New Family. Main difference is in the bobbin winding systems. Attached is Singer 12 manual which is what I used to work on my Gritzner, mainly cause I couldn't find a German machine manual:
http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...12k-manual.pdf
http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...12k-manual.pdf
Thanks for the information. I take it the Titan changed a lot over the years? The one I'm used to seeing looks like a cross between a model 15 (body) and the slide plates and inspection plate of the 27/28 series, or the one that looks similar to the one I have here but with the huge hand wheel with the gears showing.
I don't see "Titan" on it anywhere, either.
Thanks for the link. I actually already had a copy of that same link open in another window.
The shuttle is different too. The 12s have a bullet shuttle.
Originally Posted by AuntieD
Great looking machine!
Now all I have to do is see if I can answer some of the questions I have about it.
Originally Posted by sunny42539
The White Rotary machines turn backwards. I like to never got used to mine turning backwards.
09-17-2013, 10:05 AM
#10
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: center of the sicily, pietraperzia
Posts: 62
good morning to all. I'm an italian member, I have very few posts here-
.
I read many time this thread, very interesting for me, because
recently I bough on ebay a nice flowered L O Dietrich, that seems quite identical in its mechanism to the Winselmann of ArchaicArcane, and after its whims are the same. but I didn't understand all in this thread, so may I ask you what do you think from my photos?
here is the pictures
[ATTACH=CONFIG]436505[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]436508[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]436509[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]436510[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]436511[/ATTACH]
do you think is the timing, or the needle, or... what?the needle was a 339 or 12x1, now I read in a blog that some fiddlebase as Titan, want a 182 needle, I don't know it and equivalent numbers in other needle lists.
the history is , the upper thread can bring up the lower, I moved the needle in all highness a hundred and more times--- nothing I loosed, tighted tension ,nothing. I tried another shuttle
thank you to whom say me something for not becoming totally mad
!
.
I read many time this thread, very interesting for me, because
recently I bough on ebay a nice flowered L O Dietrich, that seems quite identical in its mechanism to the Winselmann of ArchaicArcane, and after its whims are the same. but I didn't understand all in this thread, so may I ask you what do you think from my photos?
here is the pictures
[ATTACH=CONFIG]436505[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]436508[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]436509[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]436510[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]436511[/ATTACH]
do you think is the timing, or the needle, or... what?the needle was a 339 or 12x1, now I read in a blog that some fiddlebase as Titan, want a 182 needle, I don't know it and equivalent numbers in other needle lists.
the history is , the upper thread can bring up the lower, I moved the needle in all highness a hundred and more times--- nothing I loosed, tighted tension ,nothing. I tried another shuttle
thank you to whom say me something for not becoming totally mad
!
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