Odd machine, does anyone recognise it?
 

Found this machine for sale about 2 hours from us. The seller said they thought it was a Singer, but the name's worn off.

I'm reasonably sure it's not a Singer, but there are a few clues that make it look like I could be wrong.
It looks german to me for some reason...

Things like the way the thread take-up lever plate is secured, the style of the bobbin winder and the quality of the woodwork looks German to me.

The serial number, the lock hardware and the presser foot tension look Singer-esque to me.

The lack of a Singer badge makes me think not Singer... the stitch length looks wrong too, but I could swear I've seen "one" Singer like this, but i can't think of which one it is, and how do you Google that.

Position of the treadle belt looks "wrong", but perhaps I'm looking at this machine like it's newer than it is?

It looks like there is a serial number by bobbin winder. That would be a clue. Does it work? It looks like it will be a lot of fun to use.

I think that I saw something that looked like this machine when I was surfing recently but don't remember where. The German aspect seems to ring a bell. I'll be interested in knowing whenever it is determined.

Hello Tammi,

Yes, it definitely looks German. Thank you for giving me the excuse to trawl through the picture library on Needlebar. Sorry, I can't find a model identical to it.

I asked him for the serial number. Haven't heard back yet. When I emailed him to say I really don't think it's a Singer, and that I thought it was German, we started a dialog. He's got it listed for $100, but says he'll give me a good deal on it. :) The ad says he thinks it works. I'd literally have to go and try it out. The thing is, I'm almost willing to bet that I don't have a needle for it,... my guess,.. Class 12, like my Winselmann. Yuck. Hard to get here, and I haven't felt rich enough to order some of them from the online sources yet. I'd love to be wrong though.

I'm having the same problem. I'm fairly sure I've seen the stitch length regulator, possibly even here on the QB, but how do you google "I saw this thing, it looks like this, and might have been german"... :)

I asked him if we could drop by if we go through to Calgary next weekend, and take a look to see if I could figure it out, whether I took it or not, at least he might have more info to help him sell it. Of course, you know if I get it in my hands, it's a done deal.

Hah! My pleasure! The closest I managed to come was the Frister and Rossman Model E which is the third last picture on this page: http://www.sewmuse.co.uk/frister.htm
Still, not close enough.

If I've stumped you though Muv, I'm wondering if I'll be able to figure it out at all. I've read your stuff about the German machines, that's possibly where I learned everything I know about them! BTW, I think my Winselmann thanks you for that. ;)

Hello Tammi, I think this machine will probably take a standard needle.

Really? That would be great!!

I got a response from the seller too:

The needles and lid are a good piece of news though.

If it were a Singer serial number, it would be circa 1873, but there's no model information, so I can't even look that up to see what it would have looked like.

The mystery remains unsolved for now.

Tammi, It's not a Singer. When people refer to old machines as Singers they just say that because they are black. Happens all the time.

There's no point in trying to relate the serial number to Singer numbers. The machine is a Vibrating Shuttle. They were not produced by Singer until the mid 1880s.

I have gone through all the photos on Needlebar of other European machines and found no match. I still say it's German - I would be surprised to learn it was anything else.

Not saying Muv is wrong but the only ones I've found on Needlebar with that lever on the pillar for stitch length are British (Vickers) and Australian?!?!

http://needlebar.org/cm~nb/displayim...lbum=257&pos=3

http://needlebar.org/cm~nb/displayim...bum=337&pos=20

http://needlebar.org/cm~nb/displayim...bum=411&pos=25

http://needlebar.org/cm~nb/displayim...lbum=495&pos=8

What a mystery. Are you going to 'look?' Would also like to know what it is.