ok which model machine should I use for this?
 

My hubby is active duty military and is wanting some tactical items made. This means I'll be sewing through 2-4 layers of cordura fabric, ribbon binding, etc. Not as heavy as denim but not cotton quilt fabric either. I've done a few items with my regular machine but not as heavy as what I'm planning. I don't want to use my brand new viking for this, and I'm thinking that maybe I need to get a 201 for this particular job but don't know much about them. Can I drop feed dogs? That would be kinda helpful for alot of the curves and such I would be doing.

I have a 301 and a 501a but honestly I've never used them, just inherited them and they've been sitting in their cabinets. Would either of these be up to the task?

I may go back and pick up one of the 201s from this lady anyway but want to get a machine primarily for this heavier sewing work.

What do you all suggest?

Yes your 301 and 501 would be good test subjects. There's nothing these machines can't do that a 201 could...

I agree with Candice... to a point. If you are making honest to god tactical items, designed to be used in possibly a COMBAT situation.... you will be using at least a #69 nylon thread, 92 is you can get it and it works in your machine. MY rotory hook machines will not play nicely with that weight of thread, though the ols 27 and 128 with a vibrating shuttle handle it easily. also BAR tacks are used in a lot of places ( MOLLE strips ) and you will need a zig zag stich for that..... if you are doing it for strength in seam say to fastem the straps on... you are actually better served with a "box X" ( think seat belts) but true MOLLE strip will need bar tacks.

Also if you are going to be doing more than the few pieces, not only will you not want to drop the feed dogs, you will want a walking foot and/or needle feed. this type of work is REALLY much easier and better done with a true industrial machine.

if you need to ask specidic question on methods and practices for working with heavy build ups and taped edges etc... there is a forum I can recomend that deals strictly with DIY tactical gear.

Good luck
Dan

yes, I will be using MOLLE straps and such. Now, I can do that on my new machine just fine, but for things like bag assembly where I'm sewing pockets to sides to lining etc and will have many layers, I think it would be too rough on my motor of my embroidery machine.

What i've made to this point has not used MOLLE but he wants that and i now have a place I can get it. Ive used the BOX X for straps and such to this point with pretty decent success, but I wasn't using the heavier fabric and the traditional binding. Basically I am going to reverse engineer some gear for him and its going to be alot more labor intensive than what I've made to date.

I made a bag with my 301 the other day and it sewed through 4 layers of fabric and 2 layers of batting (6 layers total) without blinking an eye.

I am not saying that a standard machine Wont do it, but, we are talking several 4-6 layers of 1000 denier Coated cordura, and maybe as many as three layers of tubular nylon webbing. All seems of course are taped ( bound) as well. the reason for the walking foot is that Large stack ups like that tend to "squirm" and it gets Very hard to not have the seams shift when you are talking that amount of sheer THICKNESS. in addition the presser foot lift on many home machines is not even high enough to get the material stack under.... Tactical Gear is Very different than quilting or clothing. For starters the thread is going to play havoc with you, most people sewing cordura in any extent with a home machine end up double wrapping at least one of the pegs in the tension assembly just to get by. Some of the more complex pieces use materials like Kydex ( thick plastic sheets) and the neoprene padding inside of the shoulder straps and waist belt is very "grippy" and can really heat up and grab a needle.

In short... Give it a try with what you have... realizing that bigger machines do it better ;-) you may have to get creative when it comes to some area's.... find alternate ways to make a seam or join so that there are not as many layers... stuff like that. I make tactical and outdoor gear on my home machines.... and I am seriously ready to have this Big Consew industrial up and running.

I hope this is ok to link to here, but this site has simple instructions and a forum frequented by home shop professionals. they WILL have the answer ( some of them are grump old military men so be warned ;-)

http://diytactical.com/blog/

Good luck and let us know how it comes out!
Dan

Right, but what I'm saying is that a 201 will not do anything a 301 or 501 can't do. And that was what the OP was asking about.

That is entirely correct ( in my limited experience) I have had better luck with HEAVY thread in the VS machines ( which I know the 201 is not) but something like a 28 or a 128 Might handle heavy thread better, if you ran into trouble with the 301, plus they are way cheaper to find and abuse than a 301 ;-)

I love DIYTactical :D This is precisely what I'm looking to do.

Well, I've been on the lookout for a good industrial but havent found one in my price range just yet. I do have a contact that has a couple of juki industrial machines she said I could come in and sew on if I wanted but I have the opportunity to pick up a nice 201 extremely cheap and I thought that might be the next best thing to an industrial in my studio. If you have another machine you'd recommend instead by all means let me know. Thanks for the input. Extremely helpful!

I have heard the Juki industrial machine are very good machines. I would not try sewing that kind of stuff on any regular sewing machine, I tried sewing 4 layers of leather once a broke a metal piece and repairman had to improvise to make another. Good luck.

For extra heavy stuff like you're describing, I don't think a 201 is what you want to go with, and certainly not a slant-needle machine like a 301. If you absolutely had to do this with a domestic I'd say a Singer 15-91 is a better bet than the 201, as the 201 has a horizontal bobbin (vs. the 15-91's vertical bobbin), and that extra turn the bobbin thread has to make in a 201 may become a liability.

Be aware that about the heaviest thread you can get in a model 15, or any domestic Singer for that matter, is #69. If anyone's successfully used #92 in a 15-91, please let us know, I'd like to hear about it.

Before you buy that industrial you mentioned, find out what that particular model was designed to do. People seem to think "industrial" just means "super strong for thick material" and that's not what it means at all. For example, a lingerie factory will be filled with industrial machines, and none of them would be suited for sewing webbing to Cordura.

I have one machine that I use to make dog leashes and collars. I'm never going through more than four layers of webbing, but it's a Singer 15-90 (not -91) that I converted to handcrank. There's no motor to burn out, and the handcrank is great for the slow, precise stitching required to do a proper Box-X on material that's only one inch wide. I use #16 or #18 needles, depending, and #69 thread top and bottom.

The industrials belong to a military alterations business, so while they might not be used to sew tactical gear, I know they are at least equipped to handle the heavier fabrics.

I guess thats really what I'm struggling to decide and I'm not knowledgeable with all these machines enough to know what would be the best addition to my studio. I only suggested the 301 and the 500A because I already have them and it would give me a reason to use them instead of them just sitting in my studio doing nothing. I've sewn purses and diaper bags and baby bedding from these fabrics, and I do all the alterations for my husband's unit free of charge for them, and that all is done just fine, usually on my Bernina, at least until I get a walking foot for my new Viking. I may move that over to one of these machines. My goal with all the machines I have is to be able to leave some of them set up for specific things so I'm not constantly having to change out bobbins, needles, threads, etc just to sew on a set of stripes or repair a bag when I'm in the midst of a quilt. I want a machine dedicated to uniforms, and one dedicated to tactical sewing, and the others I can use for regular sewing projects.

If you don't want to go industrial - think about finding a class 15 Japanese clone zig zag machine and a generic walking foot. It isn't the perfect solution, but with careful handling a Japanese zig zag machine will do what you want to do, since you are not doing production work. You can leave it set up and ready to go and if you burn out the motor - oh well - they made millions of them, buy another one.

Good ones to look for, and this isn't a complete list, only what I can think of at 5:30 am :)
Morse Fotomatic
White: post 1950 to pre 1970
Wizard
Fleetwood

These brands usually use regular short shank feet. With Kenmore and some other more familiar brands you may need specific feet.

I have a couple.of zig zag machines and.a couple of clones. The zig zags are not near and dear to me so maybe thats an option as i wont care if they wear out. Ill consider that. :)

The men are correct - you need an industrial machine. They are made to handle the heavy thread. An industrial walking foot machine has a bigger bobbin, bigger hole in the throat plate, takes bigger needles.

If you use heavy duty thread you might make some adjustments to the bobbin tension, needle hole and see if the machine will accept a larger needle and stay in time. As you said there are cheap machines that are not so dear. I wouldn't try it on a large heavy item - too much pull on the needle bar.

You don't need an industrial machine. I've used my 15-91 Centennial to sew thick leather. I'm including a photo of my machine and the leather is sitting in a heap next to the machine. Sewing 2 pieces of that together made it a full 3/8" thick! And the leather that came off the cow's shoulders was 1/4" thick when sewn together. The old Singer machines go through it like a hot knife through butter. My 15-91 didn't even need the tension adjusted. I went from sewing the leather to quilt fabric the same day and didn't touch the tension. It was fabulous!

I have a 201 as well as a 66-15, I'd use any one of them to sew military tactical items.

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I agree with Christine. Sure an industrial would make short work of the project but a class 15, with a size 18 needle and some 69 wt thread, will do what she wants to do. It may take having to use the hand wheel to make a stitch at a time on some areas, but it will get the job done without having to buy an industrial machine set up in a 42 x 20 motor stand.
If she was making gear for the whole platoon on a daily basis then yeah - get an industrial.

I use to have a Sailrite Sailmaker machine when I was sailing. I could sew thru heavy dacron sails with it and also Sunbrella for making bimini covers. It was one heavy and very tough machine. It wasn't cheap, but was the only thing I could find that could do sails and wasn't an 'industrial' machine. At the same time I had a White Jeans Machine that I was told (by the salesman) could sew thru 12 layers of denim. NOT! Hated that machine.

Did you know there is a sail makers sewing machine on shopgoodwill.com? Sale ends 8/3. [TABLE="width: 100%"]

[h=1]Read's Sailmaker Sewing Machine with Pedal (11105537)[/h]

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[TH="class: shade"]Currently[/TH]

[TD="class: shade"]$16.00 USD [/TD]
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some times I have seen some industrial machines for not too much on CL.

The Read's Sailmaker looks similar to my Belvedere Adler 950-B. They have the same Needle L-C-R function using a lever, bobbin winder is the same, feed dogs drop the same way, reverse is the same (button is pushed in). Very interesting! I found the Belvedere at the Rescue Mission thrift store, in a walnut table, for $30. It makes beautiful stitches. The Read's Sailmaker must be a great machine to have!

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I put a bid on it...don't yall go outbidding me! :D