bkay

I was totally misinformed. I thought the plastic gears started with something past the early 600s. I knew the 700s had plastic gears and also the later 600s. I just bought a 538, and it has plastic gears. I assumed, incorrectly that the 500s were older than the plastic geared ones. I have a 503, which is supposed to be metal.

How do the less experienced folks know where (number wise) the plastic gears start?

bkay

miriam

Series aren't aren't in sequence

waltonalice

I learned to sew at a Singer center in 1970, but bought a Kenmore because all the new machines at Singers had plastic gears, as well as the bobbins that wound in situ. I found that the bobbins didn't hold much thread and I feared that the hard plastic gear could easily get damaged. I'm sorry to admit that I have no idea what the model numbers were, but certainly the machines were made with plastic by the late 1960's.

bkay

I found some timeline info by numbers on ismacs. It's exactly what I wanted to know. I guess I should just read that site. I keep finding what I want to know there (or someone directs me there when I ask a question).
Thanks for you help.
bkay

Mickey2

I have been trying to sort out the all metal models too, at least all metal inners (the odd knob and handle on a lever is allowed to be plastic and still be called "all metal" in my way of thinking). The 500 and 600 series are sort of on a case to case basis; there are reports of people buying identical models and finding one machine with all metal gears and the other with one or two plastic gears. There was a thread on this a few months back too.

I'm not too strict on the all metal requirements, because some of my favorite swing needle models have one or two plastic gears; they are 50 pluss year old machines still running fine with original parts. Some plastics have aged better than others, and for many models there are better quality replacement parts available than the original parts. In some cases there are replacements available in both steel and plastic for the same part. These models can be well worth fixing up.

With Singer and some other brands you will find phenolic/resin type plastic as early as the 1920s (I think the 201-2 was introduced in 1928). Buy the early 50s I suspect Singer must have experimented with the various new plastics. All open arm Elnas and Berninas I have seen have had a plastic gear or two, machines dating to early 50s. Flat beds versions of similar models are some times all metal, and of a sturdier construction (at least the parts under the bed).

Cari-in-Oly

The 201-2 was introduced in the 30s and does not have plastic gears it has a fiber gear, and I've never seen one that has failed.

Cari

Mickey2

Those fiber gears are plastic, related to bakelite, bexit, melamin, I think they called it textolite. By 1950 nylon had become more common, a polymer plasic of various origin, usually petroleum. The 201 in general was at least introduced in 1928. Does anyone know the gear set-up on the 101? It has the potted motor at least.

bkay

I guess it's because the sewing machine repair man (who was fixing my touch and sew) told me to buy 601s and 602s because they didn't have plastic gears. My point was to buy machines that wouldn't have problems, or would be cheap to fix if they had a problem. The 538 surprised me. I mistakenly thought if the number was under 600, it would be indestructible. He did tell me to stay away from 400's because of timing problems. No one has corroborated that opinion so far, though.
bkay

Mickey2

I can't vouch for all the 400 numbers, but I know a couple of 401 who has worked hard for decades, use and abuse, still runs fine. They have bee taken in for service a few times in their lives, but timing wasn't the problem, it has been more of a general care and tuneup than anything directly wrong. I know of a 319 that was knocked out of timing at one point, but it's the owners favorite machine so it was fixed right a way, was in for service once and it hasn't happened again. It would be interesting to know if other repair guys have done the same observations. I see way too few sewing machines to get more than a very limited case by case observation, but the 401 comes off as a sturdy and dependable model from my point of view.

miriam

The 401, 403, 404, 500 and 503, 600, 603, 604 machines are good. There are also some German models that look somewhat like those machines in the 400 series and are good - they have different numbers but the number is followed by a G. Out of all of those I have ever seen one had a timing issue. It was because someone tried to hem some carpet or sew something upholstered and bent the needle bar. Once the needlebar was replaced by a donor that machine ran perfectly. There are some good Singers that are white but not many. To me it seems like it is the plastic gears or the belt drive under the machine whether or not they are any good. The good news is that there are parts for most of the Singers if you stay away from computers. If the bottom belt is rotted, broken, missing, mis-sharpen or whatever, the machine could have a timing problem and/or you may have to come up with a belt. Some have rubber teeth feed dogs. As long as you can come up with some you might be ok as long as the plastic gears hold up - there are replacements out there and who knows you might like the machine. Usually those machines with plastic sit a long time on Craig's list they can usually be bought pretty cheap. They may be listed for an arm and a leg but after they sit ther could be had pretty cheap.

ETA any sewing machine can be set out of timing or abused out of timing. It is not unique to Singer. Abuse is abuse.