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Thread: General Chit-Chat and Personal Diaries and Announcements: next round of discussions

  1. #1
    Administrator Admin's Avatar
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    It looks like the PDA section isn't working out as intended.

    When we first introduced the PDA section, the biggest concern of some people was the fact that not many others would see their posts down there.

    And now, plenty of members post in PDA the kind of content that could (and should) be posted in Main, Pictures or GCC.

    To tell you the truth, this really puzzles me.

    In any case, I'm considering moving back to the old GCC and simplifying the guidelines, with a few changes.

    We won't be deleting threads aside from what really goes over the line.

    Threads that get out of hand are going to be locked, and we'll include a notice explaining the reasons.

    That way, if you bookmarked some page and it got locked (as opposed to getting deleted), you'll still be able to find out what's happening instead of seeing a "topic doesn't exist" message.

    Right now, I'm thinking we should allow everything in GCC except for politics, religion, dirty jokes and personal negative posts.

    I can already see that we are going to have a problem with some content.

    I think it would even be OK for people to vent in GCC occasionally, but I already know it will get out of hand. As it did in the past.

    I would like to hear your thoughts on how to handle the posts that don't fit the GCC guidelines. We'll have such posts no matter what set of guidelines we use. So we might as well discuss how to deal with them.

    What do you, as members of this community, believe would be the appropriate action if, say, we get a flood of prayer requests or negative posts or jokes getting out of hand?


  2. #2
    Power Poster MadQuilter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin
    It looks like the PDA section isn't working out as intended.
    And now, plenty of members post in PDA the kind of content that could (and should) be posted in Main, Pictures or GCC.

    I would like to hear your thoughts on how to handle the posts that don't fit the GCC guidelines. We'll have such posts no matter what set of guidelines we use. So we might as well discuss how to deal with them.
    I started using the PDA section recently and only bemoan the fact that I don't have enough time to communicate with everyone. (This is such a nice group!)

    Do you have an example of what you think should be in the GCC rather than in the PDA? I think letting the member know that the topic would also be appreciated in the CCC might be a good start. Once we "understand" what is expected, I think no adjustment is needed.

    Do you expect that the existing membership will violate the new rules, or do you think it is mostly new members who don't read the rules AND are not aware of the kerfluffel we had a while ago?

    If you find a member violating a rule, why don't you remind that member to please read the rules and point them to the one that was offended? If I did something wrong, I would not be opposed to getting a pm letting me know. This way, the issue is handled in private (no loss of face) and the member has an opportunity to fix their message. Should the same member offend again, then the position of the administrator needs to step in and do some serious chest beating.

    That's my 2 cents worth and I'm sticking to it.

  3. #3
    Administrator Admin's Avatar
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    Do you expect that the existing membership will violate the new rules, or do you think it is mostly new members who don't read the rules AND are not aware of the kerfluffel we had a while ago?
    I expect both to happen.

    Do you have an example of what you think should be in the GCC rather than in the PDA?
    Well, the idea was for posts like "I'm having a surgery tomorrow, please pray for me" to go into PDA so that people close to that particular user would follow up. And posts like "Check out the pics of my countryside" to go into GCC because many "strangers" would enjoy it too.

    But it seems like we have the opposite going on right now.

    I think letting the member know that the topic would also be appreciated in the CCC might be a good start.
    I tried contacting a few people when I first noticed it. But it's not working. People continue to post the way they post.

    And deleting posts in PDA if they are in violation of PDA's guidelines to force them to use GCC is something I would like to avoid.

    The idea for PDA was to create a safe and personal place for each user. But it turned into something else. There are people posting pictures of quilts and projects they are working on. Why would they want to "hide it away" from the rest of the board by not posting it in Pictures?

    I don't know. But I see that happening.

    If I did something wrong, I would not be opposed to getting a pm letting me know.
    That's what the moderators do now. PM the authors.

    But that's not working.

    PMing everyone who posted in a thread to be deleted is going to take a lot of work, so it's not really possible. And PMing only the author of the thread leaves a lot of people wondering what happened.

    That's why I'm considering locks instead of deletions.

    This way, the issue is handled in private (no loss of face) and the member has an opportunity to fix their message.
    That sounds nice in theory. Unfortunately, it works out a little bit differently.

    There isn't always a way to "fix" the message. Most of the time, it's completely against the rules.

    People just get upset and refuse to understand why their posts were deleted.

    And from what I learned today (well confirmed really, not learned) is they then go out and start telling everyone about how unjust were the actions of the moderator.

    So I want the community to work out the procedure and then stick to it.

  4. #4
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    The only time I've checked the PDA section is to check up on Morgan's Update by Jamie. Or when someone on Live Chat said something was in their PDA and gave a page number. I don't have the patience or time to wade through everyone's diary, even though there are those with whom I would like to keep in touch.

    I usually only check Pictures, Main, and Chit Chat. I like MQ's suggestion of a pm to members who violate the rules, but this might involve too much of your or moderators time. As far as how to handle floods of certain topics or those getting out of hand, no idea. It will happen. And I'm sure however you handle it, there will be some who consider it the wrong way.

    I would like to say thank you for having a place to come and communicate with other people who like to quilt. Good luck.

  5. #5
    Administrator Admin's Avatar
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    As far as how to handle floods of certain topics or those getting out of hand, no idea. It will happen.
    Yep. Let's say we allow everything back into GCC.
    Tomorrow, 10 people will post about their personal problems. OK, that's fine.

    But the more people read it the more would like to share some of their problems too. That's only natural. So it would consume the whole section pretty quickly.

    We would have to put a stop to it at some point.

    What do we do? Lock topics? Delete topics? Send PMs saying "sorry that we have to delete your post, but there is already too much negative stuff on the board at the moment. please try again later"?

    I can't imagine too many people would be happy about that.

    And if we don't do anything, then plenty of other people would be unhappy with the board. There are many people who come here to get away from stress in their lives and to take a break. And seeing plenty of negative content is not something that would help them.

    Completely prohibiting it won't work either. I understand that people make friends here and they become closer. So they want to share personal stuff with each other.

    That's what the PDA was meant for. But it's not being used that way.

    So we are back to trying to figure out how to make GCC work without the complexity of additional rules.

    I don't have the patience or time to wade through everyone's diary, even though there are those with whom I would like to keep in touch.
    That's because there is way too much non-PDA content in PDA.

    It was meant as a way to announce what's happening in your life. Unfortunately, people don't seem to want to use it this way.

    Let's say I try to enforce the "spirit" of the rules of PDA. What do I do? Delete someones posts with pictures of their house and ask them to repost in GCC? Or do the same thing with pictures of their quilts?

    I doubt they would like that very much.

  6. #6
    Power Poster MadQuilter's Avatar
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    Sounds like you just can't win. Or at least you can't win them all.

    I noticed a recent locked thread and once I read the content it was clear why it got locked. (Negative vibes expressed.)

    If someone feels the need to violate the rules [they are not THAT difficult to understand] and then feels the need to vent or complain about the administrators after they were called on their violation is acting pretty immaturely imo.

    It would be interesting to hear back from the PDA users why they only post the quilt pics or general pics in the PDA and not in the GCC.

  7. #7
    Administrator Admin's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to hear back from the PDA users why they only post the quilt pics or general pics in the PDA and not in the GCC.
    Yes. I would like to know too.

  8. #8
    Super Member JoanneS's Avatar
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    I usually check
    'Jamie's' to see how Morgan is doing, 'recent','GCC', 'pictures' and the weekly news you send. I started looking at PDAs, but they quickly got too long.

    I rely on the checked box 'notify when a reply is posted' to hear about a subject that interests me, and I uncheck it if I don't want to hear more.

    I rarely see things that 'go beyond the pale' - but when I do, I hope the moderator steps in - as happened recently when someone got a little carried away. We CAN all be friendly and usually are - but sometimes we need reminders! I hope this poll will serve as one of those reminders. Perhaps you should post it every 5 or 6 months!

  9. #9
    Super Member GailG's Avatar
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    Quite frankly, thiscyber-ducki doesn't know what GCC and Pwhatever really is, but IMHO, it makes sense to just use the PM method for contacting friends about personal matters.

    I don't recall the incident this past week, but there was a lock put on a thread -- and that was understandable.

    Occasionally there is some back-biting and unkind sarcasm happening. This past week there was something and I just had to respond about it being an unkind gesture. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I thought it was uncalled for.

    We must all remember that the prime reason for our being here is our love for quilting. Many of us are just learning and many are very developed in their skills. We all need to be more patient with each other. Many, many thanks to those who monitor and do whatever it is they do to keep it going well.

    Oh, is my face red!! :oops: I see it now. GCC -- general chit-chat;
    PDR -- personal diaries and announcements. I apologize.

  10. #10
    Power Poster Rhonda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadQuilter
    Sounds like you just can't win. Or at least you can't win them all.

    I noticed a recent locked thread and once I read the content it was clear why it got locked. (Negative vibes expressed.)

    If someone feels the need to violate the rules [they are not THAT difficult to understand] and then feels the need to vent or complain about the administrators after they were called on their violation is acting pretty immaturely imo.

    It would be interesting to hear back from the PDA users why they only post the quilt pics or general pics in the PDA and not in the GCC.
    I enjoy my personal thread or PDA very much. I have posted pics that my friends would be interested in and if I think everyone else would be interested then I have posted on the main part.
    The thing I like the most about the PDA is that I know I am not taking too much space and talking too much in someone else's thread. In my own I can talk as much as I want and know I am not stepping on anyone's toes.
    I also like being able to go to friend's pages and joke around without offending anyone. I would hate to lose the PDA.
    I guess I don't feel that it is taking away from the main part of the board as most of what I see in the PDA is chitchat that was frowned on before on the main part.
    The PDA is a neighborhood where we enjoy talking over the back fence so to speak. That would take up too much room on the GCC.
    Just my thoughts and opinion.





  11. #11
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    I think back to the way it was is a good idea.

    I never saw a joke that offended me in GCC, mind you, we seem to be a little broader minded over here, and a little less sensitive. There are limits, definitely, and some jokes in the world can be incredibly offensive and over the top. But we're not the kind of people in here that ever repeat those ones. Overall, we're good people, we do good things for each other, and we care a lot. Some of us are religious, some of us are not, some are a little risque, some are not. No one group should be able to set the moral standard of the board, it needs to be broad and it needs to allow for everyone. And if you don't like what's in a thread, close it and don't go back in. Quite simple really. I think some people in here have been getting a little carried away, getting offended on behalf of someone else, or just looking for things to take offense at.
    We're all adults, we're not all the same, and no one is intentionally trying to hurt, offend, or hassle someone. People would do well to remember that.

    I know that escalation happens.... someone posts a joke and the next one is a little more, the next one a little more again.... so what's wrong with a quick little comment "crikey, lets not get too carried away", and leave it at that. A rule will never cover all eventualities, there will always be something outside the box. So just deal with it when it arises. People WILL learn. The problem for the moderators is that with new people all the time they may face the same situation over and over. That's a pain, but it's just part of life, like being a teacher.

    And for the negativity thing.... that's just life too. Sometimes times are bad, sometimes they're good. There are cycles where it seems like every second thread is a "woe is me" type. But people don't leave in droves do they? We're all still here. Just close the thread, walk away, and come back in a few days. Or better still, post a happy thread to balance it!! Now there's a novel idea! ;-)

    I understand the dilema for Admin, trying to keep everyone happy but I really think this has become a mountain when it's actually just a molehill. Life is never simple, and it's never easy, and it never fits neatly into a little tidy box. It's messy, it's dirty, sometimes it's negative, and sometimes it hurts. But more often it's fun, and happy, and postitive, and great! It's all a matter of which side you focus on :-)

  12. #12
    BlueChicken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhonda
    Quote Originally Posted by MadQuilter
    Sounds like you just can't win. Or at least you can't win them all.

    I noticed a recent locked thread and once I read the content it was clear why it got locked. (Negative vibes expressed.)

    If someone feels the need to violate the rules [they are not THAT difficult to understand] and then feels the need to vent or complain about the administrators after they were called on their violation is acting pretty immaturely imo.

    It would be interesting to hear back from the PDA users why they only post the quilt pics or general pics in the PDA and not in the GCC.
    I enjoy my personal thread or PDA very much. I have posted pics that my friends would be interested in and if I think everyone else would be interested then I have posted on the main part.
    The thing I like the most about the PDA is that I know I am not taking too much space and talking too much in someone else's thread. In my own I can talk as much as I want and know I am not stepping on anyone's toes.
    I also like being able to go to friend's pages and joke around without offending anyone. I would hate to lose the PDA.
    I guess I don't feel that it is taking away from the main part of the board as most of what I see in the PDA is chitchat that was frowned on before on the main part.
    The PDA is a neighborhood where we enjoy talking over the back fence so to speak. That would take up too much room on the GCC.
    Just my thoughts and opinion.



    I haven't been using pda.... I haven't had much time to be online so once I've checked the pictures and the main section, I'm pretty much done for the day. Plus, I go in there and there are soooooo many threads I want/need to read, it's just too intimidating and I end up reading none. While I'm asleep, you guys are awake and posting, so there is a whole days worth there when I get up, it's not a slow progression of posts, it's the whole lot in one lump. And it's just too much.
    But I miss catching up with what people are up to. Before it changed, I would still miss things, but I'd catch some because there were comments in other threads, or because the thread title would catch my eye. If it was someone I didn't know, or a subject I didn't want to read about, I'd just close the thread and go elsewhere. :-)

  13. #13
    Administrator Admin's Avatar
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    Plus, I go in there and there are soooooo many threads I want/need to read, it's just too intimidating and I end up reading none.......But I miss catching up with what people are up to. Before it changed, I would still miss things, but I'd catch some because there were comments in other threads, or because the thread title would catch my eye.
    This is what I'm worried about with the PDA. The fragmentation of the board with non-PDA content that should be in Main/Pictures/GCC is only a part of it. Additionally, the huge number of posts in the PDA makes it hard to spot true announcements. So the section loses some of its original purpose.

    If it was someone I didn't know, or a subject I didn't want to read about, I'd just close the thread and go elsewhere.
    That works with 3-4 threads, but not when the majority of them are of the kind you don't want to read.





  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin
    If it was someone I didn't know, or a subject I didn't want to read about, I'd just close the thread and go elsewhere.
    That works with 3-4 threads, but not when the majority of them are of the kind you don't want to read.
    Yeah it does... you just hit close a lot more. No big deal really. ;-)

    There were certainly days where nothing in the GCC was something I really wanted to read, but who said there had to be a percentage in there that appeals to me?? Leave it for a couple of days and there WILL be something in there I want to read.

    Oh... and there is ALWAYS something to read in here, the Main section and the Pictures section always have plenty to keep me occupied while I have my breakfast. :-)

  15. #15
    Super Member SaraSewing's Avatar
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    This is a personal opinion, but I don't really care for the personal plea's for prayers, updates on their garden project etc. It's not that I don't care, but I simply am so limited in time that I choose to focus on quilting. I love photos of projects, patterns, asking for suggestions. And while I'm sorry if your goat or rhinoceros has leg spasms during the full moon, I would really rather see the quilt you made out of grampa's neckties. I have never gone to the diary page, and probably won't. But it's great for those those who have the time.

    I was (am)personally offended by off color jokes. As above, I am on the quilting board site. I don't care to read cute little stories, jokes, etc.

    And while I'm on this subject, I am anoyed by quotes inside quotes, inside quotes. Just add your ideas without the rehearsal that we could all read. I can see certain threads get off subject easily, like the swaps. I love seeing what others are making, their patterns, colors, but personal little jokes are lost on the rest of us.

    I love the way that Admin listens to all of us, tries to make it a workable board. So instead of doing away with the diaries, just make the rules more clear. It would be a huge job for monitors to move things to their correct spots as they are posted tho. Thanx for starting this discussion.


  16. #16
    Administrator Admin's Avatar
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    There were certainly days where nothing in the GCC was something I really wanted to read, but who said there had to be a percentage in there that appeals to me?? Leave it for a couple of days and there WILL be something in there I want to read.
    What about other people who aren't the regulars here?

    I made an analogy about a stranger approaching a group of people in our previous discussion -- back when we started the PDA.

    What happens when a person who could become a great addition to this community sees it for the first time? All they see is the stuff they don't want to read. If they don't like it, they won't come back. And there would be one less quilter in here than could have been.

    Imagine yourself stumbling across a new website. How likely are you to return if all you saw were posts about personal problems and over-the-top jokes?

    Well, I'm sure some people would say "great, my kind of place" :) But in general, flood of any one kind of messages isn't good.

  17. #17
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    I'm told that some people are afraid to post in GCC because they don't want their posts deleted, and so they post in PDA content that is appropriate for GCC.

    Others, like Rhonda, enjoy posting in PDA.

    There is nothing we can do about the latter. I don't want to prevent those who really want to post in PDA from doing so.

    As for the former, we can try easing up the rules of GCC a bit. Additionally, we wouldn't be deleting the topics. But if something isn't appropriate for GCC, we would lock it and post a notice inside the thread explaining the reason and advising the author to take it to the PDA.

    That way, everyone would know what's happening.

    What do you think?

  18. #18
    Power Poster Ninnie's Avatar
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    I am one that has been guilty of starting a new quilt in PDA, not because I wanted to break the rules, but because it takes me so long to make a quilt top, this one will take at least 3 weeks, working on it every day. I have since moved it to pictures. the only thing in doing it like this is that with updates, there is no way for people to know something new has been added.
    I do apologize for breaking the rules. And I would have moved it to pictures later on. I just don't know if it is alright to post a quilt in pictures and to follow it from start to finish.
    As far as GCC, goes, I read what I want to read, and pass by what doesn't appeal to me, and I have never had a problem with it.

    Again I do apoligize for breaking the rules. :oops: :oops:

  19. #19
    Power Poster Lacelady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhonda
    Quote Originally Posted by MadQuilter
    Sounds like you just can't win. Or at least you can't win them all.

    I noticed a recent locked thread and once I read the content it was clear why it got locked. (Negative vibes expressed.)

    If someone feels the need to violate the rules [they are not THAT difficult to understand] and then feels the need to vent or complain about the administrators after they were called on their violation is acting pretty immaturely imo.

    It would be interesting to hear back from the PDA users why they only post the quilt pics or general pics in the PDA and not in the GCC.
    I enjoy my personal thread or PDA very much. I have posted pics that my friends would be interested in and if I think everyone else would be interested then I have posted on the main part.
    The thing I like the most about the PDA is that I know I am not taking too much space and talking too much in someone else's thread. In my own I can talk as much as I want and know I am not stepping on anyone's toes.
    I also like being able to go to friend's pages and joke around without offending anyone. I would hate to lose the PDA.
    I guess I don't feel that it is taking away from the main part of the board as most of what I see in the PDA is chitchat that was frowned on before on the main part.
    The PDA is a neighborhood where we enjoy talking over the back fence so to speak. That would take up too much room on the GCC.
    Just my thoughts and opinion.



    I'm fairly new to the board, but agree with Rhonda, I have several friends I regularly check in with, to see what they are up to, how they are, etc. Yes, we do post pics of work in progress, but I think we all put finished work on the main board, at least I have. I have also responded to requests for pics of the area I live in, that is requests from those I regularly chat with in their PDA's. I doubt if the whole board would be interested, as they haven't been involved in those conversations that prompted the requests in the first place. They still have the option to come on over and join in if they so desire. Please don't mess with our PDA's, I feel I have some good friends in there now, but if you feel we should also post pics on the main board, then just let us know via PM

  20. #20
    BlueChicken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin
    There were certainly days where nothing in the GCC was something I really wanted to read, but who said there had to be a percentage in there that appeals to me?? Leave it for a couple of days and there WILL be something in there I want to read.
    What about other people who aren't the regulars here?

    I made an analogy about a stranger approaching a group of people in our previous discussion -- back when we started the PDA.

    What happens when a person who could become a great addition to this community sees it for the first time? All they see is the stuff they don't want to read. If they don't like it, they won't come back. And there would be one less quilter in here than could have been.

    Imagine yourself stumbling across a new website. How likely are you to return if all you saw were posts about personal problems and over-the-top jokes?

    Well, I'm sure some people would say "great, my kind of place" :) But in general, flood of any one kind of messages isn't good.
    But not all the posts are about personal problems and OTT jokes.... the Main section and the Pictures section are what show when you use the "recent topics" button, and they're huge, much bigger than GCC. The GCC is only a part of this board, and not the biggest or most important part at all.

  21. #21
    BlueChicken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admin
    As for the former, we can try easing up the rules of GCC a bit. Additionally, we wouldn't be deleting the topics. But if something isn't appropriate for GCC, we would lock it and post a notice inside the thread explaining the reason and advising the author to take it to the PDA.

    That way, everyone would know what's happening.

    What do you think?
    I really like that... there's nothing worse than not knowing what you did wrong. :-)

  22. #22
    Power Poster Rhonda's Avatar
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    I'm not always sure what is appropriate and what isn't in GCC. I know we talk in the PDA and one thing leads to another so stopping and thinking oh that should be on the GCC wouldn't occur to me. I am not sure I am comfortable asking after and discussing someone's health on the GCC. We do discuss personal issues as problems with kids and that was something I thought was not wanted on GCC.
    We have joked around and played with poetry and that was not wanted in the main stream part. So I would find it hard to respond in the GCC for fear of offending. In the PDA I know I am not offending if I say something silly and joke around. I feel more comfortable there.
    To tell you the truth I never read the GCC. Because it isn't listed in the recent topics I forget it is there.
    Again this is just my opinion!!

  23. #23
    Super Member Minda's Avatar
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    I would like to see GCC and PDA combined. When someone wants to vent, would it help to lock the thread and ask us to use a PM to respond. That way, we can send our messages of support right to the person who needs them.






  24. #24
    Super Member sewjoyce's Avatar
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    First, I would like to thank Admin for the great site we have here and I greatly appreciate all the work you all do. Without it, I would have many lonesome days and nights. And I've actually learned a lot here and all of it not necessarily about quilting. I've also made a lot of friends.

    I do not read the PDA on a regular basis -- maybe twice since it began. To me, it's simply overwhelming. I used to love reading the GCC but since it doesn't come up in the "Recent Topics", I very rarely go there either. And I feel like I'm missing a lot of things.

    I would like to see the GCC put back the way it was and also included in the Recent Topics once again. If it's something that I don't want to read about, I'll just skip it and go on. Or if I open a topic and then don't care for it, I can leave it alone and go on. I've heard several comments that people don't like using the PDA and don't want to break any rules, so they end up not posting anywhere.

    I think it would also help if people made the title of their posts more plain -- such as "Quilt Finished", "Today's Joke", "I'm Ill" or even, "I hate my neighbors". At least then, we know what we're getting into before we open the thread.

    Again, I love this place and hope you can resolve these issues to everyone's satisfaction. And I'll know you'll try :D :D


  25. #25
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    As for the former, we can try easing up the rules of GCC a bit. Additionally, we wouldn't be deleting the topics. But if something isn't appropriate for GCC, we would lock it and post a notice inside the thread explaining the reason and advising the author to take it to the PDA.

    That way, everyone would know what's happening.

    What do you think?
    That makes perfect sense. It's usually what is done on the horse forum I stop in at--and everyone can see why the post was locked--and it fades to pages beyond.

    One very important issue with me is to explain clearly what is in the post on the subject line. I use the whole line sometimes to make sure I'm clear--so some can skip it if they choose. There should be so surprises.

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