grades
 

I had a graduate level class the last few weeks. I had 100% in the class until the group project. The group was so disfunctional! I ended up with a 95.5%...I know still an A, but 100% would have been so cool. I have never had 100% in a graduate level class and I was so excited about the thought. The teacher did like my portion of the project (she didn't know it was mine). Okay, I am done being a baby and I will go quilt until I feel better. :) Thanks for listening.

Sounds like you are doing well!

Sorry the group project didn't go as well as you hoped.

Maybe a life lesson - teamwork matters?

You're not being a baby. I hated group projects when I was in school. I still don't think your grade should be dependent on someone else's work (or lack of it!). And they probably received a higher grade because you did so well. Hmm..maybe they should pay part of your fees for taking the class..!

I agree! Group projects are for lazy teachers. Fewer projects to grade and they know each group will probably have someone who does most of the work so they will get a good grade. That way they don't have to grade the poor students. One class my daughter had, I insisted that the teacher only grade her and give the other 2 students a different project because my daughter did all the work and provided all the supplies. The teacher didn't like it, nor did the other students, but she finally agreed to it.

I always hated group projects, too. No matter how hard you work, if just one person doesn't care, the entire group is brought down . . . and the negligent person pretty much gets a free ride, from the work of the others! :thumbdown: I'm all for teamwork but one's grade should NOT depend upon the work of others! :mad:

I do not think there should be group projects at the graduate level. I never had one, it would appear that by the time you have achieved graduate status you should be accountable for your own work and not others.

There is always someone in the group that should be "voted off the island" isn't there?:mad:

Injustice hurts. I know from experience in a very similar situation that happened 45 years ago! The two "friends" who teamed with me both got A's and I got a B! And they both apologized after the class--but not enough to let the professor know who should have the A, I had created the project, and did ALL the WORK and they knew it. I learned a great deal. When I was teaching I never gave group projects--I knew the truth. Sorry you have had this lousy experience.

Perhaps you didn't mean it that way but I found the statement "group projects are for lazy teachers" to be quite offensive. Like it or not, collaboration and working in groups is a 21st century skill that all children (and some adults I know) need to have. Very few careers today are done by one person working entirely alone. It takes a lot of training from the teacher to teach students how to work as a group effectively. The OP's instructor probably assumed that, at the graduate level, the students already had these skills or would speak up if one team member wasn't pulling his or her weight.

Quiltmania, I agree fully with you--The remark about lazy teachers was hurtful to teachers and students and I was offended too. Groupwork is necessary and being a team player is important. Plus, who ever said life is fair? It isn't. So learn to deal. Yes, it's sad that someone works harder than others, but that's life in the real world.

I have to agree with parts of both of these statements. I don't think teachers are lazy, but they should know which students are doing the work and which aren't. Everyone in the group should not be graded equally, period. Also, students should get to pick their groups.

Unfortunately, after working out in the corporate world and even when I'm teaching, most of the group projects I'm involved in are like the group projects in school. A few people carry the group and others just slide along. There is nothing fair about it.

Group projects are a fact of life, both in school and in many other settings as well.
It has been stated that in any group 80% (or more) of the work is done by 20% (or less) of the members. Observation of whatever group you are in (committee, church, PTA, etc.) will confirm this assessment.

Unfortunately, those of us who are that 20% end up doing it in whatever situation we are in because we are the 'worker bees' and just are going to get it done anyway, whether or not the others pull their share of the load.

Being a team player IS important, ask any employer and they will tell you that some of their most valuable employees are the ones who can 'work with anybody and everybody', do their part (and maybe a bit more) and are the ones who will be sure a task gets done.

Be proud to be a 'worker bee', but don't volunteer for more than you can handle comfortably...voice of many years experience speaking here. I've learned (finally, I hope) that just because I CAN do something, doesn't mean I have to be the one TO do it every time.

Good luck and congratulations on that A!

I don't think students learn to work in groups from group projects. I think they just get a lesson in unfairness. The only way to keep it fair is to grade each student on his or her contribution.

I do not like group projects for just that reason. In one class a member of my group argued with the instructor, oh my, was just glad when the class was over.

Maybe this was a lesson designed to teach you how not to treat your students. I sure had a crash course in negative examples in grad school. (And positive ones, too, I admit.)

Speaking up about a team member not pulling their weight does not work with some professors. They take it as your failing to motivate your group member. In our psychology class, there were two guys who would not hand in assignments, hand in incomplete assignments, not show up for meetings after the meetings were changed to accommodate them. When we complained to the professor she asked "would you ladies deny these guys a good grade in this class because of their inconsiderate behaviour?" A resounding "YES" was the reply. Bottom line, we all got A's. Yes, those two lazy, manipulative loser guys who will probably end up CEO's, got A's also. Darn shame. I learned a lesson too. :(

Hmmm so that'll be what 10 quilts then? :) Sorry about that (been there done that). That's the one thing that disturbs me and unfortunately many don't realize it's to help them learn team building etc. But YOU still did great and ROCKED it!

Being a team player is all about "life" - especially in the workplace.

Just one of life's many lessons, get used to it... taxes, welfare, obamacare, 'ONE FOR ALL AND ALL FOR ONE'. Just remember tho, when you lay your head down at night, you did the best YOU could do and YOU can be very very proud of yourself. Congratulations on your hardwork!!

I am extremely offended by the "group projects are for lazy teachers" comments. Any good teacher understands that some group members do not work as hard and grades with individual rubrics so the working students are not penalized by the other student's lack of work. Participation is always a part of the grading rubric. Most of the time rubrics even ask group members to rate other group member's contributions to the project. Sometimes I had to have students work in groups due to lack of materials, etc. in my science classroom. Most teachers see 120 - 150 students a day and if materials are consumable, you have to group in order for everyone to experience the learning situation you are trying to provide. I can't tell you how many times I have purchased materials and equipment with my own money just to have enough for group projects - no way could I afford to buy for 120 - 150 students. Any good teacher would never let a group project reward poor student work or penalize good student work.
When a teacher is asked to write a reference for a student to go on to college, group participation observations are always included in the references. It is a valuable experience to work in a group, isn't that what we end up doing on our jobs the rest of our lives? How many of your co-workers pull their own weight?
Bottom line, a good teacher is aware of what is going on in their groups and uses a rubric to grade fairly. They are not all being "lazy". Try going home after a long day and spend 3-4 hours at home grading 120-150 projects or tests every night. Even if you put students into groups of 3 or 4, there is still a lot of grading to do each night.

My feelings exactly! I'm fairly recently graduated from college (I went back after I was all grown up... LOL!) & it the frustrations of group projects is still fresh in my mind. It drove me NUTS to have group projects. It seems like a couple of people do all the work & the others coast. And your grade isn't up to you like it is with other things.

Don't feel bad about not being happy with you 95%. I took a class one summer that had a total of 500 points possible for the class. I got a 495 (still an "A", still the highest grade in the class) & to this day it still rankles me (I missed one question on one test & I still remember the question! Obsess much, Rebecca? LOL!).

When they pay me, I'll work with whoever they want!! When I'm the one paying for a class..I want my money to go for representation of MY work. Yes people need to learn teamwork. But they don't need to be graded on it.

I hate group work also. My daughter was in a group where 1 person overcut the class, contributed nothing to the project, and was generally dead weight. Guess also got a good grade for the work my daughter did and guess who got the good job as a result of the degree? Not her!! So, I hate group projects, no matter if that is the "model" for today.

I do agree with this.

I agree with this too :-)

AMEN!!! Teamwork if fine BUT in school, the ones who NEED the lesson seldom learn it. What they "learn" is that it's "okay" to take credit, for work they didn't do. :thumbdown:

Awe, I'm sorry that happened to you! Like they say, life's a B, then you die!

As a retired teacher, I resent your assertion that group work is for lazy teachers. Teachers are constantly harangued by administrators and members of the business community about the need for students to learn to work with groups because that's "the way it's done in business." For awhile, group work was called "cooperative learning" and the instruction to teachers from those on high and in ivory towers was to pick one student who was very capable, one who was less capable, one who was even less capable and one who was almost hopeless academically. Now, guess who got to do all the work, not because the teacher was lazy, but because the ivory tower college professor who thought this bull up sold it to some school adminstrator who went to a week long workshop, played golf until the last afternoon, heard the last presentation and came back and had to prove he had been to the meeting. Lots of stuff like group work is imposed from on high and teachers' evaluations depend on whether they will conform.
Administrators who came to my classes frequently complained, "But your classes are so teacher oriented," to which I replied, "Darn straight! I'm the one with the Master's degree and I know what needs to be taught." Because I had tenure, I could do that. Before you jump on teachers in general, be sure you know what you are talking about. I can assure you that many, if not most teachers, hate group work for the reasons you mentioned. froggyintexas

Group projects bring up the can't do person and brings down the can do person. So the final result is just acceptable. Sad that good employees have to be burdened with the crappy ones who get the same credit. This was the major complaint of employees when I worked. But we have to give everyone a trophy right?

I understand..
 

Okay, the lazy teacher comment offended me, too, but...

I really wanted to share wth you that I know what perfectionists we all can be, especially when we are getting a grade, so I do understand how much the 100 would have meant. I am still getting teased about a class I took a few years ago, doing much of the work online while my family and I were on vacation. I so wanted a 100 and only made a 97. My husband and kids would not let me forget this. We are hardest on ourselves!

Congratulations on a job well done.