Am I stealing? Or just borrowing?
10-14-2008, 03:36 PM
#32
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by justquiltin'
jstitch and moonpi,
You two seem to be the experts on this, so I'll ask you to clarify something for me...
You're saying that if I buy the book -- let's say I subscribe to Fons and Porter's Love of Quilting magazine -- then I have permission to make the quilts, even for sale? Is that right? Or is it OK for me to make them for personal use/gifts only?
I have much more experience in copyright with sheet music, so this is a whole new area for me. And it's not at all the same.
Thanks for your patience and experience here.
You two seem to be the experts on this, so I'll ask you to clarify something for me...
You're saying that if I buy the book -- let's say I subscribe to Fons and Porter's Love of Quilting magazine -- then I have permission to make the quilts, even for sale? Is that right? Or is it OK for me to make them for personal use/gifts only?
I have much more experience in copyright with sheet music, so this is a whole new area for me. And it's not at all the same.
Thanks for your patience and experience here.
The patterns are owned by the magazine. Most of the time, what is published in a magazine as a pattern is assumed for you personal use. If you want to make it for sale, they are protected by copyright law. Mostly this is to protect someone from taking the design and mass producing it for sale.
If you make one for your sister, and charge her for your time, you probably arent going to get in trouble, but if you are making a dozen to sell in a craft sale, it begins to cross the line. If I want to make one to sell, or to make for an opportunity quilt, Ill ask permission. It is the right thing to do.
However, many times a magazine will publish a picture of an inovative work and no pattern.. That is not OK to reproduce. As a matter of fact, many times you will find a comment in the magazine to that effect if you read the fine print.
As in music,,,a traditional tune, in the public domain is free for you to use and create your own composition of the tune.. that composition is yours and subject to copyright law.. someone else cant record your version or composition of the tune without your permission.. Would you give it,, probably..maybe even get some commission for it...
My opinion only
10-14-2008, 03:39 PM
#33
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by sspingler
Well, I for one am taking all my pics off this board and will no longer be a part of this forum if so many people think it's ok to steal!!
Good by
Good by
And I think that the truth is, most of the people who have that opinion really couldnt reproduce your work anyway..
I, for one, enjoy your posts and dont want to see you leave over a few mis spoken comments
Most of the time, on this board, when I read people wanting to make a quilt they have seen, they are asking where they can buy the pattern..
And this thread has served as an educational tool for those that really never thought about it in these terms before
10-14-2008, 03:51 PM
#34
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,097
If you want to display it or sell it, get permission. Most "serious" quilt shows will actually ask if you have used a commercial pattern and require you to obtain written permission to display a quilt made from that pattern. I have had letters from people to that effect when they made a quilt from a pattern on my website.
Copyright law is a very interesting and complicated issue. Ebay has a HUGE problem with it! If you look up "custom boutique" little girls clothing, you will see literally HUNDREDS of Disney, Dora the Explorer, Hello Kitty, and other "character" outfits. And, unfortunately for the honest designers, those are the ones that sell for hundreds of dollars. I would never make one to sell. If I want to make my granddaughter a Minnie Mouse costume, however, I am not going to feel that I need to write Disney to get permission.
Copyright law is a very interesting and complicated issue. Ebay has a HUGE problem with it! If you look up "custom boutique" little girls clothing, you will see literally HUNDREDS of Disney, Dora the Explorer, Hello Kitty, and other "character" outfits. And, unfortunately for the honest designers, those are the ones that sell for hundreds of dollars. I would never make one to sell. If I want to make my granddaughter a Minnie Mouse costume, however, I am not going to feel that I need to write Disney to get permission.
10-14-2008, 04:04 PM
#36
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 465
Originally Posted by jstitch
Originally Posted by shellyp
Originally Posted by Janeen
he did say that if I wanted to SELL somethings with his designs we could possibly work something out.
there are a blue gazillion patterns in the public domain, fabric manufacturers give away awesome patterns on their websites (free for the download)..
there are a blue gazillion patterns in the public domain, fabric manufacturers give away awesome patterns on their websites (free for the download)..
With that many patterns out there....how do I know that a design that I came up with isn't already out there somewhere? How do I know that its an original? I really don't. Whos to say that on one site its free but on a different site, in different colors (the ones I'd like to do), its a pattern their selling? This is where I'm totally confused!!!! :? :? :?
I believe that there is very little in the way of pieced blocks that are original and they have been used, borrowed and reborrowed many times over..
babeegirl is right we did get rather deep here, but that indicates that there are some serious issues with copying..do draft up all the blocks you want, but dont copy GKs clock quilt...its not a block but an original..
GK's quilt is WAY, WAY beyond my skill level. But I get your point.
Thanks everyone.
I just don't want to steal something, even inadvertantly.
10-14-2008, 04:08 PM
#37
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,097
The copyright issue is one reason I stopped teaching classes from commercial books or patterns. I had to make samples for all those classes, and I wanted to sell the samples afterward. (we're talking about at least 50 samples a year!) Now I just design and draft all the patterns for the classes I teach, and I don't have to worry about it.
It's also hard to decide what is a copyrighted image/design. A flag bargello quilt? I've seen hundreds of them, all different. I could do one without a pattern if I wanted to make one. A colorwash quilt? A French Braid? I borrowed that book from the library and realized that it was just an identical pattern to one I've seen around for years. A baby quilt made in that "Mock Cathedral Windows" style? Fons and Porter have a copyright on it in their magazine. There is at least one website with a copyright on it (older than the F&P magazine). And I learned that pattern 18 years ago at a quilt guild meeting. It's not exactly a new technique, but people can publish patterns for it and claim they hold a copyright, even if it's identical to an older idea.
It's all very complicated... I don't think anyone here plans to steal an idea and profit from it. If you have a quilt that you don't want anyone to copy, however, don't post pictures of it! That's not a legal issue... it's just common sense.
It's also hard to decide what is a copyrighted image/design. A flag bargello quilt? I've seen hundreds of them, all different. I could do one without a pattern if I wanted to make one. A colorwash quilt? A French Braid? I borrowed that book from the library and realized that it was just an identical pattern to one I've seen around for years. A baby quilt made in that "Mock Cathedral Windows" style? Fons and Porter have a copyright on it in their magazine. There is at least one website with a copyright on it (older than the F&P magazine). And I learned that pattern 18 years ago at a quilt guild meeting. It's not exactly a new technique, but people can publish patterns for it and claim they hold a copyright, even if it's identical to an older idea.
It's all very complicated... I don't think anyone here plans to steal an idea and profit from it. If you have a quilt that you don't want anyone to copy, however, don't post pictures of it! That's not a legal issue... it's just common sense.
10-14-2008, 07:26 PM
#38
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: So. California
Posts: 3,769
What an interesting topic!
I rarely buy patterns for quilts, because I never get around to making them!! One of the few I have bought & made was Pagodas by Debbie Bowles. After showing it at Guild, quite a few people requested a workshop in doing it, so I emailed Debbie & asked if that would be OK, and how much her patterns were. She was quite gracious, and not only gave me permission, but also gave us a special price on the patterns!
As has been said before, most designers are very good about that.
I also know, from one of our past Opportunity Quilts, that the magazines do state what the terms are for using their patterns. We did use one from an old copy of Quiltmaker magazine & again, we wrote for permission, telling them that we wanted to use it as a fund raiser. They seemed happy to give us permission.
When I was our newsletter editor, I was also a stickler for having permission to reprint items. I don't think I ever had anyone say no.
I rarely buy patterns for quilts, because I never get around to making them!! One of the few I have bought & made was Pagodas by Debbie Bowles. After showing it at Guild, quite a few people requested a workshop in doing it, so I emailed Debbie & asked if that would be OK, and how much her patterns were. She was quite gracious, and not only gave me permission, but also gave us a special price on the patterns!
As has been said before, most designers are very good about that.
I also know, from one of our past Opportunity Quilts, that the magazines do state what the terms are for using their patterns. We did use one from an old copy of Quiltmaker magazine & again, we wrote for permission, telling them that we wanted to use it as a fund raiser. They seemed happy to give us permission.
When I was our newsletter editor, I was also a stickler for having permission to reprint items. I don't think I ever had anyone say no.
10-14-2008, 08:22 PM
#39
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Arizona
Posts: 89
I too am a new quilter and now I am confused. Are you all saying that I can not look at a picture, make a quilt like it with my own fabric and colors and use it or sell it? That does not make sense because most of the ones i like are free so I am sooooo confused? Please help!!!!!! :?
10-14-2008, 08:54 PM
#40
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Central FL
Posts: 4,829
Miss Tami, there are tons of free blocks without copyright issues at all. The problems begin when people take credit for designs that are not theirs. Early on, when I first joined the board, there were some very heated threads on the subject.
I expect it to be a problem as long as their are designers, designs, and people who think just because they CAN do something, that they are entitled to. It is the same argument as movie performers have with bootleg Chinese DVDs, and musicians run into with downloads from certain websites. I have actually had a couple of people get snippy with me when they requested I send them a link to a pattern I used, when it was drawn out on a paper bag while watching my cat sit in a window. If I had the means to get it into a file for the person who requested it, how do I know that it will not be "unattributed" and become public property, or claimed as someone else's work?
I think it will be even more of a problem going forward, as longarmers are producing some kick*ss designs on tops made by others, and sometimes designed by another party entirely. It is possible that a single quilt could have 2 designers and 2 people executing the designs. If another person custom dyed the fabric, or an artist embellished the final work, it could end up with a list of credits like a movie!!! I think that is one reason why -for good or bad - I do mine every step of the way. I have bought patterns and books over the years,, but use them more as technique tutorials and eye candy.
I expect it to be a problem as long as their are designers, designs, and people who think just because they CAN do something, that they are entitled to. It is the same argument as movie performers have with bootleg Chinese DVDs, and musicians run into with downloads from certain websites. I have actually had a couple of people get snippy with me when they requested I send them a link to a pattern I used, when it was drawn out on a paper bag while watching my cat sit in a window. If I had the means to get it into a file for the person who requested it, how do I know that it will not be "unattributed" and become public property, or claimed as someone else's work?
I think it will be even more of a problem going forward, as longarmers are producing some kick*ss designs on tops made by others, and sometimes designed by another party entirely. It is possible that a single quilt could have 2 designers and 2 people executing the designs. If another person custom dyed the fabric, or an artist embellished the final work, it could end up with a list of credits like a movie!!! I think that is one reason why -for good or bad - I do mine every step of the way. I have bought patterns and books over the years,, but use them more as technique tutorials and eye candy.
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