Copyright aggrevation.
07-28-2010, 12:09 PM
#131
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Crowley, TX
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by C.Cal Quilt Girl
So here's one a little off topic but not by much.
If you decide to teach a class can you instruct students to pick up XX Book to use as a guide?? Or would it be wisest to choose a public domain Example; irish chain or log cabin to work with. These have both been around forever and published i'm sure many times.
Keep in mind no affilation w/any illustrator, book, etc.
If you decide to teach a class can you instruct students to pick up XX Book to use as a guide?? Or would it be wisest to choose a public domain Example; irish chain or log cabin to work with. These have both been around forever and published i'm sure many times.
Keep in mind no affilation w/any illustrator, book, etc.
Yes, you can absolutely teach from a pattern or
book, but you need to include in the supplies a
copy of that pattern or book for each student.
In other words, when you give the students
their list of supplies, the pattern or book should
be a part of that list. We designers are thrilled
when our pattern or a quilt from a book we
wrote is taught in a class - that is a great
compliment. I am coming from both designer
and quilt teacher of many years. And when I
was a new quilter, I took several classes.
The teacher always had everyone in the class
purchase their own copy of the book or pattern she
was teaching from - at least the reputable teachers did.
I do have one more thing to add. I think this thread
has really scared a lot of people into thinking that if
they make a quilt from a pattern, book, or magazine,
and then share that quilt in any way, they will be in trouble.
I really hate it that this discussion has led to that. Most
of you are honest quilters who just love to make quilts
and you shouldn't be this worried that the copyright laws
are such that you can't continue to do things as you have.
As I said in an earlier post - if you don't photo copy a
pattern and then pass it out to a group, try to sell it
on e-bay or some place like that, or take someone
else's design and instructions, re-write it somewhat,
change a percentage of it, and then try to pass it off
as your own, you are fine.
Marcia
07-28-2010, 01:23 PM
#132
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 33
Actually, you do not need permission to sell what you make from a design or pattern. The only thing that is copyrighted is the pattern and/or pictures themselves. An item made from that pattern is yours to do with as you please. A lot of people try to tell you that you can't make something and sell it but you can. Just don't try to sell the actual pattern itself, that you can not do. And NO, you do not have to give the person who posted the tutorial, taught the class etc., credit if you don't want to.
From the U. S. Copyright office:
"How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work".
So you can learn techniques from a book and make and sell them all you want. I have even seen doll patterns that people sell that try to tell you that you can not change the pattern to suit your needs to make an item. But, if you buy a pattern, you can change it any way you like to make your item and yes you can sell your item and without giving credit.
So, those people selling their finished products on Etsy are doing it legally.
From the U. S. Copyright office:
"How do I protect my idea?
Copyright does not protect ideas, concepts, systems, or methods of doing something. You may express your ideas in writing or drawings and claim copyright in your description, but be aware that copyright will not protect the idea itself as revealed in your written or artistic work".
So you can learn techniques from a book and make and sell them all you want. I have even seen doll patterns that people sell that try to tell you that you can not change the pattern to suit your needs to make an item. But, if you buy a pattern, you can change it any way you like to make your item and yes you can sell your item and without giving credit.
So, those people selling their finished products on Etsy are doing it legally.
07-28-2010, 01:53 PM
#134
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,388
You can sell the pattern you purchased, if it is the original. You just cannot make a copy to keep for yourself before you sell it. You CAN resell a pattern you bought... no different from a piece of art, or a book.
07-28-2010, 02:16 PM
#135
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA
Posts: 9,093
get 5 lawyers in a room.
each lawyer is working for a different client.
each client has a vested interested in the answer to a question.
now ask the question.
you'll get at least 5 differing opinions - each based on the outcome desired by the clients.
a lawyer who makes his living filing cases on behalf of copyright holders will have armed himself with an arsenal of cases references and interpretations that support his arguments on behalf of his clients.
a lawyer who makes his living defending the accused will have his own quiver of legal arrows.
the judge will sift through all the legalize and gobbledygook and use tests and standards of reasonableness as the basis of his ruling.
i'm very happy to see that everyone is conscientious and does not want to break a law or deprive professional designers of rightful income. but, seriously, most of the worry is unneccessary. the rules of thumb are so simple:
(1) if you didn't design it, don't say you did. give credit where it's due.
(2) if you didn't create and publish the pattern, don't pass out copies of it. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(3) don't pass out copies of pages from books or magazines. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(4) if you want to enter something into a show, check the rules of that show and follow them.
(5) put yourself in the shoes of the person trying to make an honest living from her talents.
(6) if you want to go professional, invest some time in research. it will be your most valuable tool.
remember The Golden Rule and act accordingly.
see? easy peezy. ;-)
each lawyer is working for a different client.
each client has a vested interested in the answer to a question.
now ask the question.
you'll get at least 5 differing opinions - each based on the outcome desired by the clients.
a lawyer who makes his living filing cases on behalf of copyright holders will have armed himself with an arsenal of cases references and interpretations that support his arguments on behalf of his clients.
a lawyer who makes his living defending the accused will have his own quiver of legal arrows.
the judge will sift through all the legalize and gobbledygook and use tests and standards of reasonableness as the basis of his ruling.
i'm very happy to see that everyone is conscientious and does not want to break a law or deprive professional designers of rightful income. but, seriously, most of the worry is unneccessary. the rules of thumb are so simple:
(1) if you didn't design it, don't say you did. give credit where it's due.
(2) if you didn't create and publish the pattern, don't pass out copies of it. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(3) don't pass out copies of pages from books or magazines. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(4) if you want to enter something into a show, check the rules of that show and follow them.
(5) put yourself in the shoes of the person trying to make an honest living from her talents.
(6) if you want to go professional, invest some time in research. it will be your most valuable tool.
remember The Golden Rule and act accordingly.
see? easy peezy. ;-)
07-28-2010, 02:23 PM
#136
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Crowley, TX
Posts: 306
Originally Posted by PatriceJ
get 5 lawyers in a room.
each lawyer is working for a different client.
each client has a vested interested in the answer to a question.
now ask the question.
you'll get at least 5 differing opinions - each based on the outcome desired by the clients.
a lawyer who makes his living filing cases on behalf of copyright holders will have armed himself with an arsenal of cases references and interpretations that support his arguments on behalf of his clients.
a lawyer who makes his living defending the accused will have his own quiver of legal arrows.
the judge will sift through all the legalize and gobbledygook and use tests and standards of reasonableness as the basis of his ruling.
i'm very happy to see that everyone is conscientious and does not want to break a law or deprive professional designers of rightful income. but, seriously, most of the worry is unneccessary. the rules of thumb are so simple:
(1) if you didn't design it, don't say you did. give credit where it's due.
(2) if you didn't create and publish the pattern, don't pass out copies of it. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(3) don't pass out copies of pages from books or magazines. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(4) if you want to enter something into a show, check the rules of that show and follow them.
(5) put yourself in the shoes of the person trying to make an honest living from her talents.
(6) if you want to go professional, invest some time in research. it will be your most valuable tool.
remember The Golden Rule and act accordingly.
see? easy peezy. ;-)
each lawyer is working for a different client.
each client has a vested interested in the answer to a question.
now ask the question.
you'll get at least 5 differing opinions - each based on the outcome desired by the clients.
a lawyer who makes his living filing cases on behalf of copyright holders will have armed himself with an arsenal of cases references and interpretations that support his arguments on behalf of his clients.
a lawyer who makes his living defending the accused will have his own quiver of legal arrows.
the judge will sift through all the legalize and gobbledygook and use tests and standards of reasonableness as the basis of his ruling.
i'm very happy to see that everyone is conscientious and does not want to break a law or deprive professional designers of rightful income. but, seriously, most of the worry is unneccessary. the rules of thumb are so simple:
(1) if you didn't design it, don't say you did. give credit where it's due.
(2) if you didn't create and publish the pattern, don't pass out copies of it. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(3) don't pass out copies of pages from books or magazines. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(4) if you want to enter something into a show, check the rules of that show and follow them.
(5) put yourself in the shoes of the person trying to make an honest living from her talents.
(6) if you want to go professional, invest some time in research. it will be your most valuable tool.
remember The Golden Rule and act accordingly.
see? easy peezy. ;-)
Well said!! That is exactly what I was trying to convey, but
I tend to do it with a diatribe, when all I need to do is like
you did - Thanks!!
07-28-2010, 02:28 PM
#137
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA
Posts: 9,093
you haven't lived until you've seen one of my diatribes.
people start reading as fresh-faced youth. by the time they've slogged through to the end, they're in line to apply for social security. :lol:
people start reading as fresh-faced youth. by the time they've slogged through to the end, they're in line to apply for social security. :lol:
07-28-2010, 06:16 PM
#139
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Chesterfield, Virginia
Posts: 725
Originally Posted by MistyMarie
So, if I make a quilt from a pattern and want to enter it in the State Fair or a local quilt show, I have to get permission from the designer to be able to display it publically? Does that mean that quilt store owners cannot put up a display quilt without permission from the designer? So, if I give away a quilt and that person displays it, they still have to research the pattern and get permission if I didn't put the designer's name on the label?
I really want to stay away from responding to anything on this thread, but this, let me try to explain this.
If you DO NOT state (and I would think that unless the organization that you are submitting it to requests a letter of permission, that stating is enough) that your quilt at the state fair is from the pattern or book by Jane Doe, or that you based your design on a photograph you saw by Jane Doe, or that you used a kit sold by Jane Doe, you are mis-representing yourself to the judges and the audience, who certainly could and may assume you DESIGNED the quilt as well as sewed and quilted it.
WHY would you NOT want to give credit where credit is due? It isn't great advertising to the designer if you neglect to say she designed it, because how am I to know this if I wander through the state fair and see your quilt? How can I know that I too can make a Jane Doe quilt?
07-28-2010, 06:20 PM
#140
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Chesterfield, Virginia
Posts: 725
Originally Posted by PatriceJ
(1) if you didn't design it, don't say you did. give credit where it's due.
(2) if you didn't create and publish the pattern, don't pass out copies of it. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(3) don't pass out copies of pages from books or magazines. tell your friends where they can get their own.
(4) if you want to enter something into a show, check the rules of that show and follow them.
(5) put yourself in the shoes of the person trying to make an honest living from her talents.
(6) if you want to go professional, invest some time in research. it will be your most valuable tool.
remember The Golden Rule and act accordingly.
see? easy peezy. ;-)
What you have stated is just about EXACTLY what I have written up in a blog that is about to be posted over the weekend. (Just so ya know, I wrote it YESTERDAY, so they be MY thoughts, my very own. Even if you DID just write all this.:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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