Dorothy Ann

Thank you for clearing that up. I don't know the answer to that. I don't represent McCall's, I only design quilts with the hope that they wiil be accepted. I don't know why that article was printed. I hope the follow up article helps. I've gone back over every thing I wrote this evening and I can't find anything I would be ashamed for anyone to see. As I have said, my purpose was to share another opinion. I am by nature a peace maker. I don't like conflict but I'm not sorry I shared my view as a designer. My website is www.peacebypiecing.com You will find alot of who I am on that site.

JJs

This discussion was going on long before you joined in - and mentioned that you design for McCalls - so how can you say, Anger is directed towards you?

Why is it hard to understand that people who are honest, pay for books and magazines, make quilts, are pleased with the quilts they make and want to show them off - maybe even enter a contest or show or fair, and ALL OF A SUDDEN, they are being told, "no no, you can pay for the pattern/book/magazine, you can buy the fabric, you can do the cutting, sewing, quilting, but you CANNOT show the resulting quilt without my say-so"

Maybe WE resent being accused of "ripping somebody off" ([bold}because they are sick and tired of being ripped off by people who don't understand or don't care about copyright]/bold])
How is it ripping somebody off if you buy the book/magazine/pattern and then want to show off the quilt?
That's the question - if the pattern is AVAILABLE why would somebody assume that there are more strings attached to a pattern???????????
If a designer is so convinced that her work is so important and so vital and so outstanding that this quilt pattern is so unusual and that everybody is just waiting to rip it off when somebody has the audacity to actually use the pattern, then why is she making the pattern available to the PUBLIC?
doh

And here's something else - all designers should refuse to let their books be included in libraries or used book stores because oh somebody will buy that book cheap or even worse, not pay anything when they borrow it from the library and use the pattern for free - God forbid

And another thing, I've gotten BRAND NEW books at Hobby Lobby on the markdown counter for 99 CENTS each - 25 dollar books!! so how much did the author get from that?
I bought the BOOK LEGALLY paid legal tender for it, at a legitimate store... and guess what, nothing in the books said, by the way, contact me (author) before you show anybody the quilts after you get them all done.

Dorothy Ann

I think I know the answer to that. Trademarks are registered, but is not necessary with copyrights. All that is necessary for a copyright is to state that it is copyrighted. Sometimes you see the phrase 'All copyrights apply' that covers most all that needs to be said. I really wanted to be of help. I wish you could all talk awhile with Beth and the other lovely ladies I correspond with.

AbbyQuilts

No I am not talking about that

I am talking about copyrighting patterns

they have registered copyrights on the pattern envelop design. some magazines and books but not many patterns themselves
I only found a few mostly stuffed animals or other things

Plus a company the size of Mccalls would register everything "if they could"
Anyone one can slap a copyright on anything and while it is true that once you make something it is copyrighted. Unless you register it it is harder to defend it in a court of law

Dorothy Ann

I wish you knew be better. I am so not puffed up about my quilt designs, we have so much fun making them and seeing them in print. I want all of my employees to feel a part of this experience. You see, I have a business. I have employees. I pay them. I earn money by designing, writing patterns and selling kits. A lot of people do that, are they wrong to want to protect what belongs to them. I have ownership in my ideas and creative designs, they are mine and I'm sorry that you can't take that in. You may see the Cinderella on a poster, but Disney is one of the few companies that does seek out and sue those who take what they have spent time in creative thought, money, energy and countless dollars in producing. I am small, there are laws that protect that which the law says belongs to me, but I can't enforce them as Disney does. But it makes me feel like someone has take something that didn't belong to them. The ideas and designs are mine, I will express that plainly. I will never deny a person the right to use something that is mine. I share all the time, books, money, recipes, patterns. But a person should ask to use them. Because it is not tangible does not matter, an idea is a noun and can be owned, possessed and given away. I'm sorry it isn't more plainly stated that the copyright remains with the designer, but it does.

Dorothy Ann

Abby, this is true. I got my information from a lawyer when I owned a stained glass business and came up with an unusual design. The copyright only protects from the people who chose to honor it. Thanks for your comments. I still love what I do even though it is long hours. The rewards outway all the negatives. And, for the most part, I don't think about the copyright. I just jumped in the fray and now regret it somewhat.

garysgal

I have one more thought and then I hope to heaven I shut up!!
The issue, Dorothy Ann, is that we all understand you design. you design and we go to your website or a quilt store and buy your patterns. They are copyrighted, we understand that. That makes sense.
The issue is, why put copyrighted patterns in a magazine that the whole world can buy, borrow, or check out from a library and make a quilt from your pattern? If it is in a magazine, it is almost public domain. Anyone can use the patterns. Why put copyrighted patterns in a publication that can be used by anyone and then add, by the way, you need my permission to make, display, or sell this quilt? Why not say up front that ALL the patterns in ANY magazine are free to be used as we see fit without strings attached??? And sell the copyrighted patterns thru another medium?? That is the issue here, I think. We aren't against copyright laws and no one is blaming McCalls or you for the laws. It just doesn't make sense to put patterns in a magazine that can't be used without permission. period. Unfortunately, that article opened a can of worms and also unfortunately, McCalls will probably bear the brunt of the anger/dismay/misunderstandings/whatever the quilting public throws at it.

AbbyQuilts

DorthyAnn
I never siad I thought you were puffed up about your designes infact I said it was nice to have a designers point of view.

Here is the what I think most people problem is with designer wanting them to ask permission

If you use a recipie in betty crockers cook book and make the best pie and want to enter it in a fair do you have to ask better crocker?

Really think about it for a min.

No one is saying designers are not hard working I dont think. I wouldnt say that
But in the same since that the music industry is suffering from over burdening restriction because some people chose to do things illegally
If designers keep puting all of these resrictions on it then they themselfs are going to lose in the end along with all of the quilters.


I said earlier I was not going to repeat my opinion on this but I will

I am of the opinion that quilt patterns do not fall under copyright no more then a dress pattern does.
You can copyright the pattern "instructions" so no one can copy that and sell it but the end result is not apart of that.
I believe it falls under the useful goods and therefore is not copyright able.
and dresses and cloths are not copyright able that was fought and won in a court case back in the 50-60's I want to say

I believe that if a designer wants to restrict their pattern then they need to sell licences to it.
Such as what Disney does with its fabric
It sells the licences to the manufacture so that manufacture can make fabric with it.
Since the manufacture knows how to make it they are still not legally able to sell that fabric without the licences



But that is all my opinion
I am not a lawyer. Heck I am not even an educated person. I do know how to research and look things up but thats it.
I would be willing to bet my house and all my money on it but since I dont use patterns, I dont sell and for the most part I dont sell my quilts I dont think i have to worry about it.

Like I said I think its great that you are here and I am sorry if you feel you are being ganged up on.
It is good that we are all talking although no one here is a copyright professional so everyone should take everyones advice including mine with a grain of salt.

JJs

so you are saying that even tho the person paid for the pattern they still have to ask to use it - how about the person have to send in a registration card - that ought to do it. Then if they don't have permission in triplicate proving that it's ok for them to use the pattern they bought we'll toss them in the jail that McCalls used in the article.....
What happens somewhere down the road when the designer is no longer around -or no longer in business - or the magrag doesn't exist? the pattern is virtually 'dead' from that time on because permission cannot be granted.
What happens a decade or so down the road when a child or grandchild proudly shows off grandmas quilt at a show?

no thanks, I decline. I'm even more convinced that I don't want to take a chance on using any magazine patterns, or 'store-bought' patterns..... and hopefully, even tho I use EQ some designer won't crawl out of the woodwork sometime in the future and claim a quilt design that I did in EQ because it "looks like it might be a derivative work"
and some quilt police won't run up at a show demanding I provide proof that I didn't use somebody's pattern without separate permission to show the quilt...

sew cornie

This has been an interesting and at times, sad, thread to read. I had no idea there were people who were so terribly angry about such a thing. I understand that copyright law seems complicated and like it's written in a foreign language. I don't understand killing the messenger (McCalls). I don't understand the lashing out at others for their statements of their interpretations of copyright laws. I don't understand why there is such an issue with taking some self-responsibility to request permission to display an item that is a copy or derivative from a designer's original work. It is ethical and completely appropriate to ask permission and give credit where credit is due. (Yes, I get it that blocks and designs in public domain are free to be used without permission.) But really, is it so hard to let a designer know that you admired their work so much that you were inspired to create something like it of your own and would be proud to display it for public viewing? I'm betting few designers would decline such a request. This seems like a huge mountain out of a molehill to me. From reading the thread start to finish, I'm sure I'll get my 40 lashes with a wet noodle here. Best of luck to those of you switching to EQ exclusively. As for me, Dorothy Ann's quilt in McCall's was the reason I bought that issue to begin with. I love it and when the day comes that I make one and want to display it, I will certainly seek her blessing first. Thank you Dorothy Ann for sharing your beautiful designs. I find them to be energizing and inspiring. Without magazines and published patterns, designers would be hard-pressed to continue in their profession.