Did anyone else read this in McCall's mag
08-21-2010, 10:53 PM
#191
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 610
What's the point of a designer putting a design in a magazine, if they don't expect people to make quilts from said design? What real difference does it make if the quilt is being made to give away versus showing it in a show? Seriously. What difference does it make to the designer?
Copyright's real intention is to make it so that the copyright owner has control over the distribution of copies of their material (i.e. the "right" over "copies" ). By putting one's design in a magazine, the designer is already giving implicit permission for copies or derivative works of their design to be made (otherwise, what's the point of including instructions, etc??) To then attach strings to that by saying, "Well, it's okay to make a copy of this design to give to your cousin, but don't make a copy to put in a show," really makes no sense. A copy is a copy is a copy. In what real way is the designer being harmed by one of those copies being displayed in a show, versus another copy hanging over the back of a couch?
The real harm to the designer is if someone makes copies of the instructions. But that's not what is being discussed here.
(and yes, I wholeheartedly agree that any quilts made from designs from someone else should include credits to the designer. Having to ask for permission, though? Makes absolutely no sense.)
Copyright's real intention is to make it so that the copyright owner has control over the distribution of copies of their material (i.e. the "right" over "copies" ). By putting one's design in a magazine, the designer is already giving implicit permission for copies or derivative works of their design to be made (otherwise, what's the point of including instructions, etc??) To then attach strings to that by saying, "Well, it's okay to make a copy of this design to give to your cousin, but don't make a copy to put in a show," really makes no sense. A copy is a copy is a copy. In what real way is the designer being harmed by one of those copies being displayed in a show, versus another copy hanging over the back of a couch?
The real harm to the designer is if someone makes copies of the instructions. But that's not what is being discussed here.
(and yes, I wholeheartedly agree that any quilts made from designs from someone else should include credits to the designer. Having to ask for permission, though? Makes absolutely no sense.)
08-22-2010, 05:37 AM
#192
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 547
Originally Posted by mswordwiz
This was on McCall's Site,with the link at the bottom...
Reader Response
We have had lots of reader response to this thought-provoking article. Therefore, we are working with the author of the piece, Janet Jo Smith, to prepare a short follow-up for our November/December issue. Copyright law is a complex topic, one which we would never have space enough to present completely to our readers. But it’s also a very important topic, and one we believe all quilters need information about in order to protect their rights and respect those of other quilters. It was with this in mind that we presented Janet Jo’s answers to quilters’ most common copyright questions. Unfortunately, some readers seem to have drawn inaccurate conclusions based on the limited information presented in the article, and are feeling alarmed about situations where copyright law has little or no application. For example, vast numbers of our favorite quilt blocks and patterns have been within the public domain for years and are not encumbered by copyright law as we understand it. We’re glad the article has spurred such interest and discussion in the quilting community, and hope you’ll watch for the follow-up.
Aug 12, 2010 at 09:10 AM
Link:
http://www.mccallsquilting.com/artic...s__and_Wrongs_
Based on the bold marks, since most of their blocks are in the public domain, I think your ok to display a quilt made with one of their patterns.
Reader Response
We have had lots of reader response to this thought-provoking article. Therefore, we are working with the author of the piece, Janet Jo Smith, to prepare a short follow-up for our November/December issue. Copyright law is a complex topic, one which we would never have space enough to present completely to our readers. But it’s also a very important topic, and one we believe all quilters need information about in order to protect their rights and respect those of other quilters. It was with this in mind that we presented Janet Jo’s answers to quilters’ most common copyright questions. Unfortunately, some readers seem to have drawn inaccurate conclusions based on the limited information presented in the article, and are feeling alarmed about situations where copyright law has little or no application. For example, vast numbers of our favorite quilt blocks and patterns have been within the public domain for years and are not encumbered by copyright law as we understand it. We’re glad the article has spurred such interest and discussion in the quilting community, and hope you’ll watch for the follow-up.
Aug 12, 2010 at 09:10 AM
Link:
http://www.mccallsquilting.com/artic...s__and_Wrongs_
Based on the bold marks, since most of their blocks are in the public domain, I think your ok to display a quilt made with one of their patterns.
I have also canceled all subscriptions related to this magazine. I will not pay for the right to NOT use something I paid for! That's just ridiculous! I wouldn't buy a car to just view it my driveway becuase it's beautiful...I buy it to use first, and then admire :)
My opinion only :)
08-22-2010, 05:45 AM
#193
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,460
I for one think this has been settled quite well it is going to hurt the quilting industry over a simple thing like being able to show our quilts in public even our local library has ask for quilts to hang maybe this has sold a few quilt patterns we also told them we cannot do that anymore also our little fair had 75 quilts this year also dicussing no quilt show next year as the lady who did all of the work putting it on said she cannot take on another job and she does not want the responsibility of getting into trouble so I see this stopping the sale of many patterns as I cannot recall the times someone said where did you find that pattern some had even ordered back issues of magazines now my answer will be EQ6 we are not allowed to use patterns and or magazines for showing
08-22-2010, 05:53 AM
#194
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,460
I think this has all been settled quite clearly and I see it hurting some of our quilt shops we have always follwed copy right laws with patterns where eveveryone had there own for a class but this not showing in a local fair is way out of line Iwonder how many patterns and or magazines has been sold over showing even our local library has wanted small quilts to hang had to tell them no more also maybe no more quilt show at our local fair as the lady putting it on daid she was not going to take responsibilty of checking every one to see if they had written permission and also I cannot count the times someone said oh where did you find that pattern when I told them they have even ordered back issues of the magazine NOW MY ANSWER WILL BE EQ6
08-22-2010, 06:01 AM
#195
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 547
Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
I wish you knew be better. I am so not puffed up about my quilt designs, we have so much fun making them and seeing them in print. I want all of my employees to feel a part of this experience. You see, I have a business. I have employees. I pay them. I earn money by designing, writing patterns and selling kits. A lot of people do that, are they wrong to want to protect what belongs to them. I have ownership in my ideas and creative designs, they are mine and I'm sorry that you can't take that in. You may see the Cinderella on a poster, but Disney is one of the few companies that does seek out and sue those who take what they have spent time in creative thought, money, energy and countless dollars in producing. I am small, there are laws that protect that which the law says belongs to me, but I can't enforce them as Disney does. But it makes me feel like someone has take something that didn't belong to them. The ideas and designs are mine, I will express that plainly. I will never deny a person the right to use something that is mine. I share all the time, books, money, recipes, patterns. But a person should ask to use them. Because it is not tangible does not matter, an idea is a noun and can be owned, possessed and given away. I'm sorry it isn't more plainly stated that the copyright remains with the designer, but it does.
I don't ask anyone permission to use anything else I purchase, and quilt patterns are not that special so as to have separate rules/laws. Therefore, I think some people have taken things to an extreme, and think by voicing them over and over, it makes it true and legal. (No, it's not true that I have to list a designer, or ask permission to use something I purchased, etc. There's no law that states this, and if there is, and anyone desires to correct me, then please provide a link to a US Legal website stating such. That, I will go and read, and perhaps it will change my actions/opinions.)
08-22-2010, 06:06 AM
#196
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 888
Here's another thought:
************************************************** ***
For example, vast numbers of our favorite quilt blocks and patterns have been within the public domain for years and are not encumbered by copyright law as we understand it
************************************************** ****
so how is Jane Doe supposed to know the difference if it is not stated on the package/article??
I've been reading some of the copyright law stuff on the web - not opinions but the laws themselves (see I ain't no dummy too stupid to understand English as it is written no matter what McCalls thinks)..... And my understanding is something like this - feel free to jump in and disagree or whatever LOL
When a work is created by a designer it is automatically copyrighted to them - they can make the work available to the general public by giving away or selling the instructions - but they retain the copyright unless they specifically state that they are putting the design in the public domain, after that, they have no say so over what is done with the pattern OR THE QUILTS CREATED USING THE PATTERN.
And, they do have the right to say you can make a copy (quilt)using their pattern and they do have the right to withhold permission to show the copy (quilt) made from said pattern.
No problems so far - my beef if you want to call it that, is why be so parsimonious and narcisstic as to force quilters who buy these patterns and mags and books IN GOOD FAITH to take the extra step to beg permission to show their quilts. And if you are going to insist on that step PUT IT IN WRITING at the outset. Right on the pattern, in the book or magazine in a prominent place, instead of getting all huffy and accusing folks of theft or worse when most of them have no clue that such a thing is even required.
You want all rights reserved? Fine, just say so in plain English - put on there YOU HAVE TO ASK MY PERMISSION TO SHOW THIS QUILT or YOU MAY NOT SHOW THIS QUILT AT A PUBLIC QUILT SHOW. Or, as I've stated before, make the statement that, "This quilt may be shown at quilt shows as long as you credit the designer"...
What is the big deal that this can't be done?
Why assume that people are out to claim a designer's work?
I'm sure some people do, but in this day and age of instant communication 99% of them will be found out in a New York minute.
Give quilters the opportunity to NOT break copyright law - give them the CHANCE TO DECIDE - do I want to buy this pattern and have to ask permission to show the quilt, or do I buy 'this' pattern where the designer has already granted that permission?
And put it on the OUTSIDE OF THE PACKAGE - so Jane Quilter doesn't get home with said pattern and discover AFTER she opens the package that the quilt she hoped to make for the next guild show is not permitted to be shown.
And maybe a copyright law should be written to cover quilts and their design and then there would be no problems.
And, I'm not angry - just disgusted with the whole thing.
************************************************** ***
For example, vast numbers of our favorite quilt blocks and patterns have been within the public domain for years and are not encumbered by copyright law as we understand it
************************************************** ****
so how is Jane Doe supposed to know the difference if it is not stated on the package/article??
I've been reading some of the copyright law stuff on the web - not opinions but the laws themselves (see I ain't no dummy too stupid to understand English as it is written no matter what McCalls thinks)..... And my understanding is something like this - feel free to jump in and disagree or whatever LOL
When a work is created by a designer it is automatically copyrighted to them - they can make the work available to the general public by giving away or selling the instructions - but they retain the copyright unless they specifically state that they are putting the design in the public domain, after that, they have no say so over what is done with the pattern OR THE QUILTS CREATED USING THE PATTERN.
And, they do have the right to say you can make a copy (quilt)using their pattern and they do have the right to withhold permission to show the copy (quilt) made from said pattern.
No problems so far - my beef if you want to call it that, is why be so parsimonious and narcisstic as to force quilters who buy these patterns and mags and books IN GOOD FAITH to take the extra step to beg permission to show their quilts. And if you are going to insist on that step PUT IT IN WRITING at the outset. Right on the pattern, in the book or magazine in a prominent place, instead of getting all huffy and accusing folks of theft or worse when most of them have no clue that such a thing is even required.
You want all rights reserved? Fine, just say so in plain English - put on there YOU HAVE TO ASK MY PERMISSION TO SHOW THIS QUILT or YOU MAY NOT SHOW THIS QUILT AT A PUBLIC QUILT SHOW. Or, as I've stated before, make the statement that, "This quilt may be shown at quilt shows as long as you credit the designer"...
What is the big deal that this can't be done?
Why assume that people are out to claim a designer's work?
I'm sure some people do, but in this day and age of instant communication 99% of them will be found out in a New York minute.
Give quilters the opportunity to NOT break copyright law - give them the CHANCE TO DECIDE - do I want to buy this pattern and have to ask permission to show the quilt, or do I buy 'this' pattern where the designer has already granted that permission?
And put it on the OUTSIDE OF THE PACKAGE - so Jane Quilter doesn't get home with said pattern and discover AFTER she opens the package that the quilt she hoped to make for the next guild show is not permitted to be shown.
And maybe a copyright law should be written to cover quilts and their design and then there would be no problems.
And, I'm not angry - just disgusted with the whole thing.
08-22-2010, 06:18 AM
#197
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 547
Also unknown to most, is the useage of individual state laws in the copyright. This is copied from the US Copyright office, FAQ:
Copyright is a personal property right, and it is subject to
the various state laws and regulations that govern the ownership, inheritance, or transfer of personal property as well as terms of contracts or conduct of business. For information about relevant state laws, consult an attorney.
Therefore, it may be legal in one state, and not in another. Interesting...I wasn't aware of the state laws!
Copyright is a personal property right, and it is subject to
the various state laws and regulations that govern the ownership, inheritance, or transfer of personal property as well as terms of contracts or conduct of business. For information about relevant state laws, consult an attorney.
Therefore, it may be legal in one state, and not in another. Interesting...I wasn't aware of the state laws!
08-22-2010, 06:53 AM
#198
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: DeFuniak Spgs., FL
Posts: 88
The officers of our quilt club including myself spent over an hr. at a lawyers office Fri. to start the ball rolling for us to become a guild. When ins. was discussed I posed the ? about copyrights. I mentioned this article to her. Her answer was "a copyright only pertains to the copying or passing around a pattern or book for others to use. We can't photo copy instructions from a book and sell them or give them to others even for free. We can make & sell anything we have made from our own purchased books. Borrowing books from others and making things to sell then giving the book back is a no no. Anything off the internet can be made and sold. If something is on the internet and we make it, we can sell the finished product. If we want to share the info to others we should direct them to the web site. The only time we can't make a product from something and sell it is if it has a patent on it. The patent# must be on the book or pattern." Where publishers & Authors are losing out is in the sales of their patterns & books. I hope I've explained this easy enough for understanding.
08-22-2010, 08:55 AM
#199
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 954
Originally Posted by alica1367
The officers of our quilt club including myself spent over an hr. at a lawyers office Fri. to start the ball rolling for us to become a guild. When ins. was discussed I posed the ? about copyrights. I mentioned this article to her. Her answer was "a copyright only pertains to the copying or passing around a pattern or book for others to use. We can't photo copy instructions from a book and sell them or give them to others even for free. We can make & sell anything we have made from our own purchased books. Borrowing books from others and making things to sell then giving the book back is a no no. Anything off the internet can be made and sold. If something is on the internet and we make it, we can sell the finished product. If we want to share the info to others we should direct them to the web site. The only time we can't make a product from something and sell it is if it has a patent on it. The patent# must be on the book or pattern." Where publishers & Authors are losing out is in the sales of their patterns & books. I hope I've explained this easy enough for understanding.
It seems like the 'hard feelings' come in to play because articles like that in McCall's makes it SEEM that designers want it both ways. They design beautiful quilts and want to show those quilts. Great! But if they don't want anyone else to make their quilt and actually take it out in public, then don't send the pattern to a magazine, don't sell the pattern, and don't post the pattern on the internet. Post the picture, but not the directions.
08-22-2010, 09:07 AM
#200
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,460
Originally Posted by renee765
Originally Posted by alica1367
The officers of our quilt club including myself spent over an hr. at a lawyers office Fri. to start the ball rolling for us to become a guild. When ins. was discussed I posed the ? about copyrights. I mentioned this article to her. Her answer was "a copyright only pertains to the copying or passing around a pattern or book for others to use. We can't photo copy instructions from a book and sell them or give them to others even for free. We can make & sell anything we have made from our own purchased books. Borrowing books from others and making things to sell then giving the book back is a no no. Anything off the internet can be made and sold. If something is on the internet and we make it, we can sell the finished product. If we want to share the info to others we should direct them to the web site. The only time we can't make a product from something and sell it is if it has a patent on it. The patent# must be on the book or pattern." Where publishers & Authors are losing out is in the sales of their patterns & books. I hope I've explained this easy enough for understanding.
It seems like the 'hard feelings' come in to play because articles like that in McCall's makes it SEEM that designers want it both ways. They design beautiful quilts and want to show those quilts. Great! But if they don't want anyone else to make their quilt and actually take it out in public, then don't send the pattern to a magazine, don't sell the pattern, and don't post the pattern on the internet. Post the picture, but not the directions.
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