Did anyone else read this in McCall's mag
08-22-2010, 07:18 PM
#221
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 547
Originally Posted by alica1367
The officers of our quilt club including myself spent over an hr. at a lawyers office Fri. to start the ball rolling for us to become a guild. When ins. was discussed I posed the ? about copyrights. I mentioned this article to her. Her answer was "a copyright only pertains to the copying or passing around a pattern or book for others to use. We can't photo copy instructions from a book and sell them or give them to others even for free. We can make & sell anything we have made from our own purchased books. Borrowing books from others and making things to sell then giving the book back is a no no. Anything off the internet can be made and sold. If something is on the internet and we make it, we can sell the finished product. If we want to share the info to others we should direct them to the web site. The only time we can't make a product from something and sell it is if it has a patent on it. The patent# must be on the book or pattern." Where publishers & Authors are losing out is in the sales of their patterns & books. I hope I've explained this easy enough for understanding.
This conversation, along with various comments and the very clear direction of McCall's magazine, leads me to believe that if the quilting community slowed their purchasing of these tightly restricted items down, then perhaps things would rapidly change to be more fair, honest and the usage would be clearly documented in the front of said items so that it can be read before purchasing.
Just my thoughts...
08-22-2010, 07:35 PM
#222
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 547
Originally Posted by moonwolf23
Originally Posted by JJs
Here's another thought:
************************************************** ***
For example, vast numbers of our favorite quilt blocks and patterns have been within the public domain for years and are not encumbered by copyright law as we understand it
************************************************** ****
so how is Jane Doe supposed to know the difference if it is not stated on the package/article??
I've been reading some of the copyright law stuff on the web - not opinions but the laws themselves (see I ain't no dummy too stupid to understand English as it is written no matter what McCalls thinks)..... And my understanding is something like this - feel free to jump in and disagree or whatever LOL
When a work is created by a designer it is automatically copyrighted to them - they can make the work available to the general public by giving away or selling the instructions - but they retain the copyright unless they specifically state that they are putting the design in the public domain, after that, they have no say so over what is done with the pattern OR THE QUILTS CREATED USING THE PATTERN.
And, they do have the right to say you can make a copy (quilt)using their pattern and they do have the right to withhold permission to show the copy (quilt) made from said pattern.
No problems so far - my beef if you want to call it that, is why be so parsimonious and narcisstic as to force quilters who buy these patterns and mags and books IN GOOD FAITH to take the extra step to beg permission to show their quilts. And if you are going to insist on that step PUT IT IN WRITING at the outset. Right on the pattern, in the book or magazine in a prominent place, instead of getting all huffy and accusing folks of theft or worse when most of them have no clue that such a thing is even required.
You want all rights reserved? Fine, just say so in plain English - put on there YOU HAVE TO ASK MY PERMISSION TO SHOW THIS QUILT or YOU MAY NOT SHOW THIS QUILT AT A PUBLIC QUILT SHOW. Or, as I've stated before, make the statement that, "This quilt may be shown at quilt shows as long as you credit the designer"...
What is the big deal that this can't be done?
Why assume that people are out to claim a designer's work?
I'm sure some people do, but in this day and age of instant communication 99% of them will be found out in a New York minute.
Give quilters the opportunity to NOT break copyright law - give them the CHANCE TO DECIDE - do I want to buy this pattern and have to ask permission to show the quilt, or do I buy 'this' pattern where the designer has already granted that permission?
And put it on the OUTSIDE OF THE PACKAGE - so Jane Quilter doesn't get home with said pattern and discover AFTER she opens the package that the quilt she hoped to make for the next guild show is not permitted to be shown.
And maybe a copyright law should be written to cover quilts and their design and then there would be no problems.
And, I'm not angry - just disgusted with the whole thing.
************************************************** ***
For example, vast numbers of our favorite quilt blocks and patterns have been within the public domain for years and are not encumbered by copyright law as we understand it
************************************************** ****
so how is Jane Doe supposed to know the difference if it is not stated on the package/article??
I've been reading some of the copyright law stuff on the web - not opinions but the laws themselves (see I ain't no dummy too stupid to understand English as it is written no matter what McCalls thinks)..... And my understanding is something like this - feel free to jump in and disagree or whatever LOL
When a work is created by a designer it is automatically copyrighted to them - they can make the work available to the general public by giving away or selling the instructions - but they retain the copyright unless they specifically state that they are putting the design in the public domain, after that, they have no say so over what is done with the pattern OR THE QUILTS CREATED USING THE PATTERN.
And, they do have the right to say you can make a copy (quilt)using their pattern and they do have the right to withhold permission to show the copy (quilt) made from said pattern.
No problems so far - my beef if you want to call it that, is why be so parsimonious and narcisstic as to force quilters who buy these patterns and mags and books IN GOOD FAITH to take the extra step to beg permission to show their quilts. And if you are going to insist on that step PUT IT IN WRITING at the outset. Right on the pattern, in the book or magazine in a prominent place, instead of getting all huffy and accusing folks of theft or worse when most of them have no clue that such a thing is even required.
You want all rights reserved? Fine, just say so in plain English - put on there YOU HAVE TO ASK MY PERMISSION TO SHOW THIS QUILT or YOU MAY NOT SHOW THIS QUILT AT A PUBLIC QUILT SHOW. Or, as I've stated before, make the statement that, "This quilt may be shown at quilt shows as long as you credit the designer"...
What is the big deal that this can't be done?
Why assume that people are out to claim a designer's work?
I'm sure some people do, but in this day and age of instant communication 99% of them will be found out in a New York minute.
Give quilters the opportunity to NOT break copyright law - give them the CHANCE TO DECIDE - do I want to buy this pattern and have to ask permission to show the quilt, or do I buy 'this' pattern where the designer has already granted that permission?
And put it on the OUTSIDE OF THE PACKAGE - so Jane Quilter doesn't get home with said pattern and discover AFTER she opens the package that the quilt she hoped to make for the next guild show is not permitted to be shown.
And maybe a copyright law should be written to cover quilts and their design and then there would be no problems.
And, I'm not angry - just disgusted with the whole thing.
I for one won't buy a magazine, book what have you, and be so limited in my ability to use it.
So - I think I'm correct when I say we have to be careful when reading, to read the ones that do apply to fabric patterns, things made of fabric, and/or utilitarian items, etc. that quilting may fall under. At least, this is the way I am reading it.
Please feel free to correct me, if wrong :)
08-23-2010, 12:09 AM
#223
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,869
Originally Posted by Dorothy Ann
Oh, what a treasure. Thank you for that. I had loads of calls stating that they bought that issue just for that quilt. I don't need that to keep designing, I'll do that until I can't see anymore, but it was really lovely of you to say. By the way, was it Oh What a Beautiful Morning that is out now or So Blissful in the last issue. No matter, when you get ready to make that quilt, please call me and I will give you a kit and it will be my pleasure. Dorothy Ann
08-23-2010, 12:29 AM
#224
Super Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,869
I am one who tries to take the time to understand all sides before passing judgement. There are a couple of observations I have seen here that I believe are worth mentioning:
1. Designers, magazines, and book publishers don't make the copyright laws. If you don't like the laws, work to change them, rather than blame others for them (who also must abide by them, btw).
2. Loosely paraphrased here, repeatedly it has been mentioned that "if designers/magazines/books don't want people to use their patterns . . . ". Who says they don't? Of course they do. Their desire to share patterns doesn't contradict with the law stating they have ownership of their designs and are to be given due credit.
3. The consumer does share in the responsibility of knowing ones legal rights and responsibilities. Even if they don't like what the law states.
Seems to me like a lot of folks are barking up the wrong tree.
1. Designers, magazines, and book publishers don't make the copyright laws. If you don't like the laws, work to change them, rather than blame others for them (who also must abide by them, btw).
2. Loosely paraphrased here, repeatedly it has been mentioned that "if designers/magazines/books don't want people to use their patterns . . . ". Who says they don't? Of course they do. Their desire to share patterns doesn't contradict with the law stating they have ownership of their designs and are to be given due credit.
3. The consumer does share in the responsibility of knowing ones legal rights and responsibilities. Even if they don't like what the law states.
Seems to me like a lot of folks are barking up the wrong tree.
08-26-2010, 05:28 AM
#226
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hartsel, Colorado
Posts: 38
Originally Posted by dgmoby
Also unknown to most, is the useage of individual state laws in the copyright. This is copied from the US Copyright office, FAQ:
Copyright is a personal property right, and it is subject to
the various state laws and regulations that govern the ownership, inheritance, or transfer of personal property as well as terms of contracts or conduct of business. For information about relevant state laws, consult an attorney.
Therefore, it may be legal in one state, and not in another. Interesting...I wasn't aware of the state laws!
Copyright is a personal property right, and it is subject to
the various state laws and regulations that govern the ownership, inheritance, or transfer of personal property as well as terms of contracts or conduct of business. For information about relevant state laws, consult an attorney.
Therefore, it may be legal in one state, and not in another. Interesting...I wasn't aware of the state laws!
The 1986 Copyright Law preempted ALL state statutes and common law on copyrights. There is only federal copyright law, except for those areas not covered by federal statute, and these are very, very few (such as unpublished works). The copyright law in Maine is the same as the copyright law in Texas or Oregon.
08-26-2010, 06:45 AM
#227
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Washington state
Posts: 820
Originally Posted by Mattee
Copyright law was not written by McCall's Quilting. It was written by congress, enacted into law, and applies equally to all intellectual property, not just quilting.
(snip)
What they are doing is saying that if you use those instructions, for that version of a maple leaf quilt, you need to ask permission before displaying it, and cite the designer when you do. Derivative means a derivative of that version of the quilt - not of a block that happens to also appear in the the quilt. For example, if I decide to use a monkey wrench block, something that I'm very familiar with, to make a quilt that I make up using my own head, it's not derivative, since the block is in the public domain. If, however, I see instructions for how to make a specific monkey wrench quilt that I really like (which I did last month in a magazine), but it inspires me to make an altered version of that specific quilt (I'm changing the size, the relative sizes of the sashing, borders, and blocks, and color scheme), then it is derivative. It is derivative because I would not have thought of putting the quilt together in that way had I not seen the pattern in the magazine. That is the key that makes it derivative. I did not think of it on my own - I thought of the design because I saw someone else's design.
snip
(snip)
What they are doing is saying that if you use those instructions, for that version of a maple leaf quilt, you need to ask permission before displaying it, and cite the designer when you do. Derivative means a derivative of that version of the quilt - not of a block that happens to also appear in the the quilt. For example, if I decide to use a monkey wrench block, something that I'm very familiar with, to make a quilt that I make up using my own head, it's not derivative, since the block is in the public domain. If, however, I see instructions for how to make a specific monkey wrench quilt that I really like (which I did last month in a magazine), but it inspires me to make an altered version of that specific quilt (I'm changing the size, the relative sizes of the sashing, borders, and blocks, and color scheme), then it is derivative. It is derivative because I would not have thought of putting the quilt together in that way had I not seen the pattern in the magazine. That is the key that makes it derivative. I did not think of it on my own - I thought of the design because I saw someone else's design.
snip
08-26-2010, 12:02 PM
#228
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,460
I am still not taking any chances with magazines what quilter does not like to show off her work and that article said we could not even enter it in a fair I am sure that is from McCalls as I contacted Fons And Porter and they said we could show our work from their patterns but not sell it I am now waiting to here back from Quiltworld and I did cancel my subscription to McCalls
08-26-2010, 12:24 PM
#229
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,322
I read this whole thread. I probably violated copyrights law once when I made a quilt that was raffled for a child with a rare cancer. Most of what was said past the emotions made sense. If it is not your original design, you cant copy the pattern and distribute it or make it without acknowledging the designer. That is pretty straight forward.
I agree with many of the women here that if you pay for the pattern or the magazine, the copyright consents should be clearly outlined BEFORE you purchase it. I cant really expect that any designer would say no if asked to display their design in a show or raffle their work but it should not be on the consumer to ask since they are not the one being paid as a professional. The onus appears to be on the consumer in the law and I personally can see where if I was paying for a magazine subscription that I would feel ripped off if the consents to show were not included as a courtesy. As far as selling I am not so clear. Maybe this is the point that should be made to McCalls who makes the bucks!
I agree with many of the women here that if you pay for the pattern or the magazine, the copyright consents should be clearly outlined BEFORE you purchase it. I cant really expect that any designer would say no if asked to display their design in a show or raffle their work but it should not be on the consumer to ask since they are not the one being paid as a professional. The onus appears to be on the consumer in the law and I personally can see where if I was paying for a magazine subscription that I would feel ripped off if the consents to show were not included as a courtesy. As far as selling I am not so clear. Maybe this is the point that should be made to McCalls who makes the bucks!
08-26-2010, 12:43 PM
#230
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,460
I wrote to Fons and Porter and just got an answer back and they said we can make any quilt from their patterns and show them we only need permission if we are going to make them for sale or for teaching purposes and I can completely
agree with this where I had a problem with McCalls saying we cannot even show them in a local fair and even the person putting on the show could be held responsible this did not make sense to me as most of my quilts has 200 dollars plus in them and am I suppose to hide them anyway I am not going to mess with McCalls rules I just canceled them now I am waiting for an answer back from Quiltworld I
am finding plenty of patterns out there without McCalls rules
agree with this where I had a problem with McCalls saying we cannot even show them in a local fair and even the person putting on the show could be held responsible this did not make sense to me as most of my quilts has 200 dollars plus in them and am I suppose to hide them anyway I am not going to mess with McCalls rules I just canceled them now I am waiting for an answer back from Quiltworld I
am finding plenty of patterns out there without McCalls rules
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