Ethical Question
05-18-2010, 01:35 PM
#21
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Keene, New Hampshire
Posts: 4,211
[quote=JNCT14]OK -
I am a pretty experienced quilter, I know the design, I calculate my own yardage, and I don't need directions. However - do I still have to buy the kit?
Now note that I would not sell the quilt after I make it.
You're under no obligation to buy the kit, nor to seek permission. Go ahead and make it. The only way you'd be in trouble is if you tried to sell it or a picture of it was published or perhaps, if it was entered in a show.
If it assuages your feeling of wrongdoing, ask if the pattern is available and if it is buy it.
I am a pretty experienced quilter, I know the design, I calculate my own yardage, and I don't need directions. However - do I still have to buy the kit?
Now note that I would not sell the quilt after I make it.
You're under no obligation to buy the kit, nor to seek permission. Go ahead and make it. The only way you'd be in trouble is if you tried to sell it or a picture of it was published or perhaps, if it was entered in a show.
If it assuages your feeling of wrongdoing, ask if the pattern is available and if it is buy it.
05-18-2010, 01:56 PM
#23
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA
Posts: 9,093
this is definitely a copyright issue.
if it is an original design, or a truly original way of using traditional blocks that you would never have thought up on your own then you would be very wrong to copy the quilt - regardless of whether or not you try to sell it or use it in a show/competition. it may be "merely" unethical, or actually illegal, or both.
making a few changes here and there does not change somebody else's design into your design. that's a myth.
if the design is protected by copyright your opinion as to whether or not you should be allowed to do as you please is irrelevant. the law is the law is the law. and it's wrong to break the law, whether you agree with that law or not.
put yourself in the designer's shoes. she's trying to make a living. copying somebody else's orginal, protected work without their consent is stealing. plain and simple.
you are obviously concerned and want to do the right thing. good for you. :thumbup:
if you want to make the quilt but don't want to buy the kit, pay the designer the courtesy of asking her permission to replicate it or for a way to buy a legal copy of the pattern.
if it is an original design, or a truly original way of using traditional blocks that you would never have thought up on your own then you would be very wrong to copy the quilt - regardless of whether or not you try to sell it or use it in a show/competition. it may be "merely" unethical, or actually illegal, or both.
making a few changes here and there does not change somebody else's design into your design. that's a myth.
if the design is protected by copyright your opinion as to whether or not you should be allowed to do as you please is irrelevant. the law is the law is the law. and it's wrong to break the law, whether you agree with that law or not.
put yourself in the designer's shoes. she's trying to make a living. copying somebody else's orginal, protected work without their consent is stealing. plain and simple.
you are obviously concerned and want to do the right thing. good for you. :thumbup:
if you want to make the quilt but don't want to buy the kit, pay the designer the courtesy of asking her permission to replicate it or for a way to buy a legal copy of the pattern.
05-18-2010, 02:08 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 872
Originally Posted by PatriceJ
this is definitely a copyright issue.
if it is an original design, or a truly original way of using traditional blocks that you would never have thought up on your own then you would be very wrong to copy the quilt - regardless of whether or not you try to sell it or use it in a show/competition. it may be "merely" unethical, or actually illegal, or both.
making a few changes here and there does not change somebody else's design into your design. that's a myth.
if the design is protected by copyright your opinion as to whether or not you should be allowed to do as you please is irrelevant. the law is the law is the law. and it's wrong to break the law, whether you agree with that law or not.
put yourself in the designer's shoes. she's trying to make a living. copying somebody else's orginal, protected work without their consent is stealing. plain and simple.
you are obviously concerned and want to do the right thing. good for you. :thumbup:
if you want to make the quilt but don't want to buy the kit, pay the designer the courtesy of asking her permission to replicate it or for a way to buy a legal copy of the pattern.
if it is an original design, or a truly original way of using traditional blocks that you would never have thought up on your own then you would be very wrong to copy the quilt - regardless of whether or not you try to sell it or use it in a show/competition. it may be "merely" unethical, or actually illegal, or both.
making a few changes here and there does not change somebody else's design into your design. that's a myth.
if the design is protected by copyright your opinion as to whether or not you should be allowed to do as you please is irrelevant. the law is the law is the law. and it's wrong to break the law, whether you agree with that law or not.
put yourself in the designer's shoes. she's trying to make a living. copying somebody else's orginal, protected work without their consent is stealing. plain and simple.
you are obviously concerned and want to do the right thing. good for you. :thumbup:
if you want to make the quilt but don't want to buy the kit, pay the designer the courtesy of asking her permission to replicate it or for a way to buy a legal copy of the pattern.
Here is something I found on quilt.com that tells the laws surrounding copyright and applied to quilting.
http://www.quilt.com/FAQS/CopyrightFAQ.html
05-18-2010, 02:26 PM
#25
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: MS
Posts: 3,434
But see, the part I don't get:
Quilts are not numbered (1,2,3,4) like sewing machines, cars, etc.
Quilts are fabric cut into squares and/or shapes. There are a billion, zillion patterns putting these shapes and squares into a determined parameter.
Is there even a rule of thumb someone less than an attorney can use to know if they are free to sew the pattern for their use, to gift or to sell? What is the rule.
I read the 'free' pattern and see it on their website. At the bottom it notes copyrighted. Then it gives the 'printer friendly version' option. Do I need to get their permission to print or does the 'printer friendly version' option constitute permission for me to have a free copy?
I buy a pattern and create a quilt from the purchased pattern. Does the pattern tell me it is to be made for personal use only not for gifting or sale?
How do I know the pattern I purcashed is not a duplicate of someone else's pattern who was a duplicate of someone else's pattern. ???????
It makes me crazy trying to understand it.
Quilts are not numbered (1,2,3,4) like sewing machines, cars, etc.
Quilts are fabric cut into squares and/or shapes. There are a billion, zillion patterns putting these shapes and squares into a determined parameter.
Is there even a rule of thumb someone less than an attorney can use to know if they are free to sew the pattern for their use, to gift or to sell? What is the rule.
I read the 'free' pattern and see it on their website. At the bottom it notes copyrighted. Then it gives the 'printer friendly version' option. Do I need to get their permission to print or does the 'printer friendly version' option constitute permission for me to have a free copy?
I buy a pattern and create a quilt from the purchased pattern. Does the pattern tell me it is to be made for personal use only not for gifting or sale?
How do I know the pattern I purcashed is not a duplicate of someone else's pattern who was a duplicate of someone else's pattern. ???????
It makes me crazy trying to understand it.
05-18-2010, 02:35 PM
#26
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sturbridge, Ma
Posts: 3,992
Just because a kit is available doesn't mean it is a copyrighted design. Most of the quilts in magazines are there to advertise the fabric from a specific company. In fact one magazine rep told me that one of their magazines is for that purpose only. Look at the design. Is it truly original or just a rearrangement of traditional designs. A copyright attorney told me you cant copyright three rectangles put together.
I looked through a couple dozen quilt magazines recently looking for a specific article. I was amazed at how unoriginal the quilts were. They were just to show off a specific fabric.
I looked through a couple dozen quilt magazines recently looking for a specific article. I was amazed at how unoriginal the quilts were. They were just to show off a specific fabric.
05-18-2010, 02:42 PM
#27
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA
Posts: 9,093
the law sounds complicated but the underlying issue is actually very simple. it's a concept taught in the earliest grades.
math has been math for centuries. the correct answer to a test question is the same no matter who figures it out. but get caught copying from the kid at the next desk and you'll find out how fast the teacher can plaster a big red "F" on your paper.
once you get a legal copy of a pattern you may do pretty much what you please with whatever you make from it. a lot of designers mistakenly believe they can tell you what you can and can't do with the finished product, but they are incorrect. obviously, you couldn't claim to have designed it yourself. obviously, you couldn't enter it into any show or contest that requires entries to be the original work of the entree. and you definitely can't claim to have written the instructions and created the illustrations yourself. but if you're allowed to enter things designed by others, and you give full and proper credit where it's due, then you are still doing the right thing.
when patterns are made available for free, they are still protected. the designer/magazine/site is offering you the opportunity to print a copy for yourself to use. if you want to share it with friends, don't give them prints or copies of yours. tell them to go to the same website (or other source) you went to so they can get their own.
you cannot control other people. when you set out to do the right thing, the right thing will usually get done. ;-)
math has been math for centuries. the correct answer to a test question is the same no matter who figures it out. but get caught copying from the kid at the next desk and you'll find out how fast the teacher can plaster a big red "F" on your paper.
once you get a legal copy of a pattern you may do pretty much what you please with whatever you make from it. a lot of designers mistakenly believe they can tell you what you can and can't do with the finished product, but they are incorrect. obviously, you couldn't claim to have designed it yourself. obviously, you couldn't enter it into any show or contest that requires entries to be the original work of the entree. and you definitely can't claim to have written the instructions and created the illustrations yourself. but if you're allowed to enter things designed by others, and you give full and proper credit where it's due, then you are still doing the right thing.
when patterns are made available for free, they are still protected. the designer/magazine/site is offering you the opportunity to print a copy for yourself to use. if you want to share it with friends, don't give them prints or copies of yours. tell them to go to the same website (or other source) you went to so they can get their own.
you cannot control other people. when you set out to do the right thing, the right thing will usually get done. ;-)
Originally Posted by dsb38327
But see, the part I don't get:
Quilts are not numbered (1,2,3,4) like sewing machines, cars, etc.
Quilts are fabric cut into squares and/or shapes. There are a billion, zillion patterns putting these shapes and squares into a determined parameter.
Is there even a rule of thumb someone less than an attorney can use to know if they are free to sew the pattern for their use, to gift or to sell? What is the rule.
I read the 'free' pattern and see it on their website. At the bottom it notes copyrighted. Then it gives the 'printer friendly version' option. Do I need to get their permission to print or does the 'printer friendly version' option constitute permission for me to have a free copy?
I buy a pattern and create a quilt from the purchased pattern. Does the pattern tell me it is to be made for personal use only not for gifting or sale?
How do I know the pattern I purcashed is not a duplicate of someone else's pattern who was a duplicate of someone else's pattern. ???????
It makes me crazy trying to understand it.
Quilts are not numbered (1,2,3,4) like sewing machines, cars, etc.
Quilts are fabric cut into squares and/or shapes. There are a billion, zillion patterns putting these shapes and squares into a determined parameter.
Is there even a rule of thumb someone less than an attorney can use to know if they are free to sew the pattern for their use, to gift or to sell? What is the rule.
I read the 'free' pattern and see it on their website. At the bottom it notes copyrighted. Then it gives the 'printer friendly version' option. Do I need to get their permission to print or does the 'printer friendly version' option constitute permission for me to have a free copy?
I buy a pattern and create a quilt from the purchased pattern. Does the pattern tell me it is to be made for personal use only not for gifting or sale?
How do I know the pattern I purcashed is not a duplicate of someone else's pattern who was a duplicate of someone else's pattern. ???????
It makes me crazy trying to understand it.
05-18-2010, 02:45 PM
#28
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: North Carolina - But otherwise, NOTW
Posts: 7,940
Most of the issues of copy right are related to selling the pattern or the items made from the pattern. If you are using it yourself, or giving one away as a gift, it is generally not a problem. A lot of patterns lately are just made of blocks in general circulation, just placed differently, and made with specific fabrics. If you copy the quilt (i.e. using the same blocks and same placement and same fabric), and plan to sell it, that's not good. If you are going to copy the placement of blocks that you already know, using your own fabric selection, and are keeping it for personal use, that's probably OK.
Just don't claim it as your own "original" design. As all the discussion above, it's the "original" concept that people get so worked up about.
Just don't claim it as your own "original" design. As all the discussion above, it's the "original" concept that people get so worked up about.
05-18-2010, 02:52 PM
#29
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fayetteville, GA
Posts: 2,879
Ok, maybe I'm dense, but I thought copywrite meant you could not copy, but if you buy a pattern, are you not buying it with the intention of making said pattern, with or without the same fabric. If we can't make the pattern with or without same fabric, why would it be for sale?
05-18-2010, 03:53 PM
#30
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Crystal River Florida
Posts: 9,785
Since you aren't going to profit from the quilt, I see no problem. I see so many quilts that are a combination of blocks I've seen in others, just a different arrangement.If I see something that appeals to me and I can make something very similar without a pattern, who is hurt? ;)
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