Fair quilt judging. No fair at all.
10-09-2017, 04:43 PM
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 947
Well, it's kind of rude for you to read my honest question and observation as snarky, but so be it.
I find your responses to be inconsistent, and that's what I'm trying to understand. you say that doing your best is important, and that competition drives you to do your best on the one hand, but at the same time, you don't feel that you have done your best and can feel good about your work unless there is a certain percentage of entries that is ranked more poorly than your own.
Is making money for a prize a factor? It doesn't seem like it can be much of a factor given the cost of materials vs. the amounts people were mentioning -- the prize amounts would not pay for thread on a completed project.
My perspective is that I do my best, and I am the only one who can possibly assess that to be true. Sometimes other people will like what I did, sometimes they won't, but my assessment of my own work is what gives me gratification. I know where I was lazy, and I also know where I did some really amazing problem solving and came up with a great piece. A blue ribbon (or red, or white or purple) would not add or subtract anything from what I know of my own work. But then, my motivations are almost always internal. I do things because I like them and I want to.
I hear people get all bent out of shape with trends where everyone wins. I question, and find more disturbing, the mindset where nobody knows they've done well unless they get external affirmation. That's not being snarky -- that's a conversational point, but if you are determined to take offense, I'm sure that you'll find a way.
I find your responses to be inconsistent, and that's what I'm trying to understand. you say that doing your best is important, and that competition drives you to do your best on the one hand, but at the same time, you don't feel that you have done your best and can feel good about your work unless there is a certain percentage of entries that is ranked more poorly than your own.
Is making money for a prize a factor? It doesn't seem like it can be much of a factor given the cost of materials vs. the amounts people were mentioning -- the prize amounts would not pay for thread on a completed project.
My perspective is that I do my best, and I am the only one who can possibly assess that to be true. Sometimes other people will like what I did, sometimes they won't, but my assessment of my own work is what gives me gratification. I know where I was lazy, and I also know where I did some really amazing problem solving and came up with a great piece. A blue ribbon (or red, or white or purple) would not add or subtract anything from what I know of my own work. But then, my motivations are almost always internal. I do things because I like them and I want to.
I hear people get all bent out of shape with trends where everyone wins. I question, and find more disturbing, the mindset where nobody knows they've done well unless they get external affirmation. That's not being snarky -- that's a conversational point, but if you are determined to take offense, I'm sure that you'll find a way.
10-09-2017, 05:43 PM
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 677
[QUOTE=RST;7922320]Well, it's kind of rude for you to read my honest question and observation as snarky, but so be it.
I find your responses to be inconsistent, and that's what I'm trying to understand. you say that doing your best is important, and that competition drives you to do your best on the one hand, but at the same time, you don't feel that you have done your best and can feel good about your work unless there is a certain percentage of entries that is ranked more poorly than your own. QUOTE
It seems like you are mashing everyone's comments together to come to your conclusion which seems critical of others in the "discussion". As if all the responses are from one person or it is everyone else who commented vs you.
Personally there are many reasons I enter quilt shows. Yes I usually know what a judge might critique me on but their comments are often helpful. I have entered quilts when the guild needs more quilt entered. Yes I have entered feeling competitive with no apologies. Most of my competitiveness is with myself. I love to do better than I did before whether it is quilting or gaming etc. I also love show and tell at guild, I love seeing others work, I love showing my work - not to be "better" than them but because those are the people who understand my love of quilting. My family will always say, "that looks great" but that doesn't compare with other quilters gasping when my quilt is unfurled at show and tell. Paint me as shallow if you will, I don't care, I am me.
I find your responses to be inconsistent, and that's what I'm trying to understand. you say that doing your best is important, and that competition drives you to do your best on the one hand, but at the same time, you don't feel that you have done your best and can feel good about your work unless there is a certain percentage of entries that is ranked more poorly than your own. QUOTE
It seems like you are mashing everyone's comments together to come to your conclusion which seems critical of others in the "discussion". As if all the responses are from one person or it is everyone else who commented vs you.
Personally there are many reasons I enter quilt shows. Yes I usually know what a judge might critique me on but their comments are often helpful. I have entered quilts when the guild needs more quilt entered. Yes I have entered feeling competitive with no apologies. Most of my competitiveness is with myself. I love to do better than I did before whether it is quilting or gaming etc. I also love show and tell at guild, I love seeing others work, I love showing my work - not to be "better" than them but because those are the people who understand my love of quilting. My family will always say, "that looks great" but that doesn't compare with other quilters gasping when my quilt is unfurled at show and tell. Paint me as shallow if you will, I don't care, I am me.
Last edited by Pagzz; 10-09-2017 at 05:49 PM. Reason: clarification
10-09-2017, 05:55 PM
#66
Power Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Location: MN
Posts: 24,390
What do you think would be "fair" judging?
Should the items be graded /ranked "on the curve" ?
Should the items be graded against certain standards for binding, quilting, piecing?
What if an item has impeccable workmanship, but is very unattractive to 90% of the people that have seen it?
What if an item is very appealing to 90% of the people that have seen it, but the workmanship is - "amateurish" - be be kind?
Should the items be graded /ranked "on the curve" ?
Should the items be graded against certain standards for binding, quilting, piecing?
What if an item has impeccable workmanship, but is very unattractive to 90% of the people that have seen it?
What if an item is very appealing to 90% of the people that have seen it, but the workmanship is - "amateurish" - be be kind?
10-09-2017, 08:47 PM
#67
Super Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Oro Valley, AZ
Posts: 4,108
RST, you state .... you say that doing your best is important, and that competition drives you to do your best on the one hand, but at the same time, you don't feel that you have done your best and can feel good about your work unless there is a certain percentage of entries that is ranked more poorly than your own.
I have been reading the responses in this thread and the ONLY person that keeps saying that there is a feeling of betterment because of a number of entries that are ranked lower than their own is you RST. To be honest the only one here that seems to be taking great offense and on the defensive is, again, you RST.
I have been reading the responses in this thread and the ONLY person that keeps saying that there is a feeling of betterment because of a number of entries that are ranked lower than their own is you RST. To be honest the only one here that seems to be taking great offense and on the defensive is, again, you RST.
10-09-2017, 09:06 PM
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: North east
Posts: 360
I believe most fairs judge quilts the same way other divisions are judged. That is each is judged individually not in competition with other entries. This system is called the Danish system. Quilts are judged just like pickles, jelly, pies, and other needlework. I have been told that is is often difficult to make the people who are in charge to change their method of doing it. And some are correct that people are hired to judge the quilts who are not familiar with quilt judging methods. Many fairies at all level are hiring certified judges (National Association Of Certified Quilt Judges) and hopefully those folk will be able to influence.
10-10-2017, 08:29 AM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 947
Well, bless your heart, Cashs mom. Have a happy stitchy day.
My understanding of the original post -- it's unfair and disappointing to find that you received a blue ribbon when all the other entries also received a blue ribbon -- so there is no joy to be had in getting a blue ribbon unless some percentage of the entries ranked lower -- apparently no ribbon at all. Did I misread?
I can understand valuing a judge's thoughtful written comments and evaluation (though I personally don't), but I can't understand being upset/unhappy about getting a blue ribbon only because eveyone entered did.
Entering a competition is self-selecting. How does that possibly give you any sense of your place on the great chain of being -- if that is what you are seeking?
Paggzz, perhaps you are correct, that I read responses on this thread as an amalgam, but I think really I was conversing to the original post and the mindset expressed in it.
Defensive -- a word that may need to be looked up to be fully undestood? Or is it defined regionally? I have nothing to defend-- I don't enter shows, nor do I need to impose my opinions or values on anyone else. In entering the conversation, I am trying to understand how and why others think as they do -- that is pretty much the opposite of defensive.
In my experience of quilting circles, one of the greatest sources of unhappiness (and unfinished projects) is a need for external affirmation (be it lavish praise, a prize, or the knowledge that one's work is better than someone else's). I'm wondering why we cling to comparison as a way of feeling good about ourselves. When people say they value doing the best that they can do, but then still need someone else to tell them that they are the best, there's a disconnect there.
My understanding of the original post -- it's unfair and disappointing to find that you received a blue ribbon when all the other entries also received a blue ribbon -- so there is no joy to be had in getting a blue ribbon unless some percentage of the entries ranked lower -- apparently no ribbon at all. Did I misread?
I can understand valuing a judge's thoughtful written comments and evaluation (though I personally don't), but I can't understand being upset/unhappy about getting a blue ribbon only because eveyone entered did.
Entering a competition is self-selecting. How does that possibly give you any sense of your place on the great chain of being -- if that is what you are seeking?
Paggzz, perhaps you are correct, that I read responses on this thread as an amalgam, but I think really I was conversing to the original post and the mindset expressed in it.
Defensive -- a word that may need to be looked up to be fully undestood? Or is it defined regionally? I have nothing to defend-- I don't enter shows, nor do I need to impose my opinions or values on anyone else. In entering the conversation, I am trying to understand how and why others think as they do -- that is pretty much the opposite of defensive.
In my experience of quilting circles, one of the greatest sources of unhappiness (and unfinished projects) is a need for external affirmation (be it lavish praise, a prize, or the knowledge that one's work is better than someone else's). I'm wondering why we cling to comparison as a way of feeling good about ourselves. When people say they value doing the best that they can do, but then still need someone else to tell them that they are the best, there's a disconnect there.
10-10-2017, 09:14 AM
#70
Super Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 9,374
RST - I don't understand why you keep insinuating that people who compete are only happy about winning when they believe there are others who are lesser than themselves. Personal experience, maybe? There are a multitude of posts in this thread that answer your question, and yet you continue to ask it.
Since when did competition become bad? Are the Olympic games evil? What about businesses who compete for contracts? High school football games? If I win at Scrabble, should I not take any joy in my win because it might mean my vocabulary is larger than my opponent's?
My husband said "If she hates competition so much, why is she trying to hard to win this argument?"
Since when did competition become bad? Are the Olympic games evil? What about businesses who compete for contracts? High school football games? If I win at Scrabble, should I not take any joy in my win because it might mean my vocabulary is larger than my opponent's?
My husband said "If she hates competition so much, why is she trying to hard to win this argument?"
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