I have heard a yarn about manufacturers using cheaper cottons to test their designs and dyes before putting the expensive run in. Cannot verify if that is true, ever was etc.- however, the story is that the cheaper cotton and seconds were the ones supplied to our version of Walmart. I notice a difference in quality wherever I go, and rely on my own judgement and purse as to what I buy.

And the original question still does not have a definitive answer for many mills.

Growing up, we used to have a "remnant" store that carried seconds, miss-dyed, and flawed fabrics, usually flat folds and some on bolt. These types of fabrics are still out there somewhere. I'm afraid there trade secrets will never be made public. The thread counts have always been altered to make specific fabrics, frome voile to super good cotton-the quality of dyes is different and how the fabric is finished adds to the cost, and we find our way somewhere in between. My guess would be that the best greigh goods would not be used for the first run or test. You have always been told to test out that embroidery first or make a muslin of that garment before cutting out the good stuff. The answer does not come from the designer or cost of our fabric, 0r even where we buy it, but the deep, dark secrets of the manufacturer, and I can guarantee, they will NEVER tell the truth about what goes on in the industry. No one can tell you what your taste is. No one can tell you what is best for your next project. No one will be convinced to have a 180 in any planning or purchasing ay time soon.

It still comes down to experience, what one likes, and what one can afford.

I have bought from fabric shops at $10/yd and it's frayed away. I've bought Walmart and it's lasted nicely. I feel fabric, look at the salvage or bolt end information.

I was told at a retreat with a factory rep there, that the huge roll of fabric, cuts off into bolts, the end is flat folds (our Ben Franklin store), and it's sold the same everywhere..fabric stores only buy 1-2 bolts so price is higher, Walmart buys thousands of bolts so price is kept down. JoAnns & Hancock don't buy as much as Walmart, but Walmart is also closing fabric dept. We have 12 stores in the state and only 2 have fabric now..prices might go up.

There are a higher quality of fabric you can watch for, where designers require better thread count, better dye, better processing. And other's that are mill basics. Do a hand scrunch test at the store, feel the fabric, nothing you can 'see' through. But before it was mentioned, they don't take time or energy to separate fabric to Walmart or a Quilt shop, it's all off the same huge fabric roll. And I've paid high price too often at fabric shops for crappy fabric..it's not the end all perfect buy, but I do like to support fabric shops..usually more selections, they offer classes, more tools than you can find at Walmart or JoAnns or Hobby Lobby...just point out to your fabric shop owner if you find crappy fabric (discretly), and that you'd appreciate the better grade like Moda, etc. Hancock you can return cut fabric now, I will, if it frays, has flaws. Wish all stores would offer that.

Now that all the drama is over in this thread, I feel like contributing.

First, you need to understand how WM buys fabric, indeed, how it buys everything. Whereas you and I go into a store (or if we're fabric buyers we go into a distributor or manufacturer,) and that dist or manufacturer tells us what the price will be. Unless we're buying a lot, or have really good relationships with the seller, we're going to pay the price they demand. If we as buyers are dumb enough to pay high prices for lower quality goods, and btw all of us have done it a few times, you'll see lower quality goods in your LQS. There is very little variation in first line goods pricing between good stuff and bad stuff to the LQS from the dists/manfct's.

When WM buys stuff, the sellers go to them, WM tells them the price point they'll buy at, and the seller decides if they can sell at that price or how they can change their manufacturing stream to meet that price point. Many sellers will sell at a loss to WM, at first, just to get in the door. This is how you occasionally find higher quality goods at WM, but with continued price pressure on the seller, they usually find a way to manufacture them more cheaply, or have specific lines manufactured at a lower cost (and subsequent lower quality) to meet WM's pricing demands.

This is a critical difference, and is the reason there is so much quality variation in the products you see at WM.

This is also the reason why you see a lot of goods appear in WM only to disappear after a short time. The seller took one shot with them and then decided they were tired of losing money or didn't want to lower their quality to meet WM's pricing demands.

We've also seen instances where WM has sold counterfeit goods, probably unintentionally.

The problem, as a fabric seller, that I have is that the brands that do a lot of business with WM tend to cheapen all their goods over time, and this has happened with several manufacturers previously mentioned in this thread. If you go to a buyers market, you'll see very little activity around their booths, because most of the small shop owners prefer not to carry these brands.

So, if you see a genuine fabric that's the same in WM as in the LQS, it will indeed be the same fabric, although it may be an older, closeout fabric. Same thing with online stores that specialize in closeouts.

But the other side of this is you probably won't find many of the fabrics that WM buys a lot of (names deleted to protect ME) in LQS's. Most savvy LQS shop buyers tend to stay away from these and some others because they (like us) have been burned by these in the past. We see a lot of these fabrics only on paper before they're released, then when we get the final product, they're just junk and we're forced to either close them out or donate them for charity quilts. I know there are several manufacturers products I won't even consider anymore because I can't trust what I'm going to get from them.

The bottom line for the retail buyer is to examine carefully what you're getting, no matter where you buy it. And if you buy something online that is sub-par when you receive it (assuming you didn't get it at a really low closeout price), don't be afraid to send it back and state to the seller why you're sending it back. The higher end online stores are like the high-end quilt shops. They don't want to sell junk.

Okay- I'm a fairly new quilter so please do not laugh when I ask this question.

Why does quilt shop material feel soft and some of the material I bought at walmart feel stiffer? If is the same why would it not all be soft?

Thanks for letting me know about the walmart fabric- my duaghter just bought 5 packages of 5 yards for $5.00 she spend $25.00 and got 25 years.

There is a lot of variability in the fabrics on the market.

The soft feel you experience is called, in the industry, "the hand."

The higher quality fabrics that use better and more expensive finishing techniques will have a better "hand." Lower quality fabrics will generally feel stiffer, and often the finishing step is skipped to save money, leaving a less desirable hand and making the fabric harder to work with.

Also, the cheaper fabrics often are top-dyed with extra dyes to make them feel thicker and less transparent rather than using more expensive penetrating dyes, and this will make them feel stiffer. Look at the fabric, does it look like the dye is sitting on top, or does it look like it's a natural part of the fabric? The highest quality fabrics will look more natural, and will be silky soft.

The finishing is applied after the fabric is printed. 1st strikeoffs, often used as earliest manufacturers samples, and sometimes sold in lower-priced venues are often not finished.

Thank you for this reasonable and accurate explanation of the marketing process. Maybe this will finally lay this debate to rest. (although I doubt it will because some people have a hard time changing their point of view even when proof has been made).

One thing I've been wondering about is thread. Is it me or does it seem like thread isn't as strong as it used to be 30 years ago? I've had more trouble with my thread shredding while on my sewing machine. Anyone else have this problem? Maybe a discussion for another thread (pardon the pun! :D )

This has been a good discussion, lots learned here, I know I appreciate learning. I've had a national teacher showing her absolutely stunning quilts, and pointing out fabrics from Walmart or JoAnns and then the rest is quilt shops.
She blended because she buys what she "feels", or likes.
Some swear by hand dyed. I've spent as high as $28/yd in Portland OR, for something I'd never seen in ND before, stunning & different..that was highly unusual. I've spent $24 for FQ of hand dyed silk, also unusual, but it would go perfect with a project I wanted to do. And I buy at Walmart & chain fabric stores as well as my local quilt shops. I do prefer the smaller fabric shops, in Oregon, we went to one for 3 hrs and didn't cover 1/6th of this huge place of fabrics.
BTW, does anyone know why Daisy Kingdom went out of business? I've seen panels sold on ebay for $15-$18 ea, that I remember buying for $2 & $5 ea. When I went to Portland (went to OR for Sisters OR out door quilt show), I looked forward to the Daisy Kingdom outlet, had bought a few years ago at quarter & 50 cent panels/yd, and didn't realize it was gone. Disappointed, I liked their items for little girls especially.. have new grandchildren is why I was interested again.

not all fabrics "everywhere" are the same as all available "anywhere", let alone the same as "everywhere else".

small, locally owned quilt shops (LQS) will most likely stock fabrics that fall at the high end of the spectrum in terms of their customers' preferences. the owners are usually first in line for the newest lines from the top manufacturers. if you think of quilt shops as clothing stores, they can be reasonably compared to Nieman Marcus, Saks Fifth Avenue, etc. they carry the haute couture "designer fashions".

while i know from personal experience that a small percentage of fabs purchased from an LQS will turn out to be disappointing in quality and performance, it should be fairly noted that in general this is not the case.

it isn't unusual for products in an LQS to be priced at the highest end of the spectrum, as well. they need to be located in areas of the community best suited to attracting customers who can afford to shop there on a regular basis. that means very high rent, for starters. a very important factor is that they cannot afford to buy too many bolts of the same fabric ahead of time. they lose the advantage of volume pricing when building their stock. add to that utility expenses, marketing and advertising costs, personnel costs, and the need to offer substantial discounts at least occassionally, and you can see why they have no choice but to charge higher prices if they want to keep the lights on and the doors open.

a chain store, on the other hand can buy googobs of anything they chose to stock. they start off with the pricing advantage. the fabric department is likely only a portion of the total operation. they can afford to grow or shrink it; rearrange the percentage of which types of fabric they carry; and to carry products found across the entire spectrum of consumer preferences. they can afford to stock fabrics that fit the budgets of the whole consumer population.

they are the TJ Max, Marshall's, and Beal's Outlet of the fabric world. you will find within their walls everything from famous name designers to the little heard of manufacturers. and - yes - you will sometimes find the exact same fabric $3 per yard that you saw elsewhere for double or triple the price. that is not always and only the case, but it is an extremely fortunate circumstance for those who have to shop with great care on a very tight budget.

it's also true that not all chain stores offer classes or special activities. they are trying to attract and serve a large number of customers they hope will all be in the store at the same time. they often have a high turnover among their employees because they don't pay well. the range of knowledge and experience may not be the same as you'll find in a good LQS. that means you may not always get the very personal and time consuming attention you can count on in a good LQS.

not all fabrics are created equal. therefore, when you shop at a chain, you will find a wide selection that includes everything from fabs that feel like silk to those that feel like sandpaper. when you shop at an LQS, the fabrics will almost always feel silky and luxurious. on rare occassions, they just won't perform as wonderfully as they feel.

because you can find diamonds and rhinestones no matter where you shop it's important to keep an open mind and to take advantage of every affordable opportunity to sample what's available from as many manufacturers and retail sources as possible. over time you will learn what you like and what you don't. you can then freely choose to purchase those things from the retail source that best meets all your individual needs as a consumer and a quilter.

I can confirm QKO's assertion about WM and the way they deal with suppliers. I used to work with a major supplier to WM and they do start out by setting a price point they will buy at. Suppliers will often agree even if they lose $$ or make very little hoping that they will eventually be able to increase the price. When they realize that they will not be able to increase price (indeed WM will begin pressuring them to decrease almost immediately), they either have to find a way to manufacture more cheaply or stop supplying.

The problem with discontinuing the relationship with WM is that WM may very well stop carrying all products by that supplier. So there is tremendous pressure to find a way to supply at a lower cost and that usually means a decrease in quality to survive.

I am not a WM hater but it wields a lot of power in the marketplace. Most of the time, there is not a similar level of power to its suppliers.

I'm busy cutting out flannel rag quilt kits to post later this week for sale and I bought some fabric from Joannes on Fri. night. I was very surprised to now see David Textiles there. I'd seen Alexander Henry, Kauffman, Blank and Michael Miller, but now D.T. too. I'm aware D.T. is selling at WM, but I'd not seen any at Joannes before. It seems more and more manufacturers are going main stream. This is merely an observation and nothing more than that.

I think your right, but it's economic survival, even Macy's is coming 'affordable'. I still love quilting, no matter what name, what fabric, where it is, just look it over and choose... I like fabric because it works well with a quilt project, or colors/theme, and not necessarily by name or price or place.
Actually, I like the old fashion idea of quilts, recycled from used items.. jeans, flannel shirts, prom/wedding dresses, mens silk ties & suite hankies, ladies fancy hankies, it's fun to discover how these work into quilts. And I have a pretty good fabric stash in yards, not big on FQs, and have no idea why I bought 10 yrds sometimes but someday, guess it will work it's way into a project. If I sewn only from my stash & kits, I'd sew for the next 30-40 yrs without buying anything more... why do we continue to buy? (Because we didn't buy that fabric yet ;-) don't tell hubby, he's already looked into the sewing room and questions my reasoning. Isn't it fun :thumbup:

You are my kind of quilter. I may start one and decide to change the blocks into different colors or add a few of my own ideas or even some of my stitching. I just like seeing the fabric come together and make something I can give to someone who will use it.

Oh Patrice...your wisdom and observations are all so very true!

Now I have a question. If the fabric is the same, why is the selvage "better" at quilting stores? The wal mart fabric has many of the colored dots cut off or in half. I still think it's first run to work out the "bugs". I buy it when the project I am working merits that. I seldom buy anything except a few mixers due to using my my stash anyway.

Nope but I found many Quilt Stores stocking VIP etc. that Walmart caries. The fabric is different. It is more expensive at the quilt store.

Its important to note that we are not talkng of ALL Walmart's fabrics. Only that the fabric is the same if its the same pattern, and the same manufacturer.

I've not seen any of the dots cut off, or cut in half in the selvedges. That was probably, simply, a mistake. Mistakes can happen with any thing, any brand, any store, etc.

Ok, now this sounds much more likely than the fabric companies' factories making 2 seperate qualities of the same pattern of fabric. That just didn't make economical sense, you know?

That's probably why my Walmart had the Grace frames a few years back, only for a couple of months.

And I do see this with other stuff, too. They had the Cuttlebug ( a die cutting machine) in a for a short time, too. But, Walmart.com still carries them though.

You know, its sad , that in a way, Walmart is basically FORCING companies to cheapen their products.

"stefanib123
You know, its sad , that in a way, Walmart is basically FORCING companies to cheapen their products."

Saddens me also, but I believe it to be true :(