I made several of those braided table runners to sell, so I decided to ask the person who made them about this copy right issue.

Here's what I sent her:
Hello--
>
> The topic of copyright came up on a forum I read. I was
> wondering if I could get your point of view.
>
> One person emailed the writer of a book of quilt patterns
> to ask if it was okay if she made a few quilts of a pattern
> and sold them, if that was allowed. The author replied to
> say anything she creates is fine, and it's her choice
> what she does, but it was not okay to copy the information
> from the book. So, we're wondering if that's the
> rule in most places.
>
> I read the copyright statement at the bottom of the
> "Quick Table Topper" directions page. I
> understand that to mean folks can't print the
> directions out, then photo copy them for others because
> you'd like them to visit your site. That makes perfect
> marketing sense. But what about making several of that
> pattern, say less than 10, to sell at a local craft sale.
> Does copyright effect this?
>
> Thanks for your input. I'd like to share your response
> with the forum if it's okay.
>
> Karla

And here's her response:
Karla,

Most designers will put some sort of restriction on their copyright stopping mass production of their design. Except for Lazy Girl, whose copyright specifically forbids it, they don't mean a couple at a craft show. They mean a manufacturing business.

As for me, I really don't mind if you make a few and sell them. It would be very nice if you could give the website credit, but I understand that you can't always do that. So don't worry about me:-))

Kris

Thanks for letting us know. I'm sure everyone will appreciate your effort.

thank you that answered a big question for me.


THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU :lol:

Thanks Karla! Very helpful info!

That neat to know. I write (honestly, I put it together, I don't actually write anything...) our quilt guild newsletter and I try to quote website and author info as much as possible - but sometimes I forget (cause I write the newsletter the night before at about midnight :( )... I'm not always being bad then... whew!! relief! Very helpful info!

:D Thanks for the info Karla.... :wink:

Thanks Karla!

I would like to thank you for several things; first the wording of your letter, I wasn't sure how to even start to write the creator, second you had an answer from a publisher in your letter, and third the response from the creator. You seem to be able to hand out such useful information, thank you for the post.

You're welcome!! :D

I guess I should have included my reply back to her:

Thank you so much, Kris. I'll let the forum folks know what you said. It's very helpful for the discussion.

I don't think putting a note of information about a website with the table runner is too hard at all--wouldn't take anything to do that--pin an index card with the website of the pattern on it. It's only fair. ;-) Consider it done.

Karla
*****************************

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I have only used traditional patterns for charity blocks, but would certainly consider adding something recent after checking with the creator.

I'd love to have some time to make items for a craft show....but lets face it ladies & gents, I'm so behind now it'll be mid-retirement before that's a possibilty LOL.

A friend just sent me an adobe file that explains copy write rules better than anything I've come across. I'm going to try to attach it to this message. I am working on a couple patterns. One is for the freebie on my web site, the other will be for sale. This is the first time I've ever written directions for a pattern and I was wondering about the copy write so my friends have been on the watch and I went to the government copy write site as well.

Happy Quilting
Sally

Thanks for the info

I still really feel if it isn't your original, I would not print it to share for free or sell it. You never know where it can lead, mostly trouble. I don't even allow my students to copy any of my directions from any of my books. They are allowed to use them in classes but no copying. Most authors allow you to make and sell using their patterns but there are a few that make a restriction that you can't make and sell.
When you design your patterns it is up to you what restrictions you want. Just make them clear and understandable. I say on mine that they can use them for themselves and in classes but if a student wants a personal copy they must purchase it. Nothing will stop them from copying it except honesty. I know I would like the proceeds from my patterns so I feel it is only fair to others not to share their patterns. After all we are the ones that took the time to design them, write them up, and check to be sure everything is correct. Of course this is just one quilters opinion. Happy quilting:-) Bernadette
Aunt Bee's quilts and more

i have to admit, i used to feel a bit differently. but time, experience, and having put myself in the designer/author's shoes have changed my mind.

i think Bernadette has summed it up quite nicely.

p.s. for Sally: as goofy as it sounds, please check the copyright notice in your copyrights article before posting. i'll keep my fingers crossed that sharing it is ok with the author because i'd really like to see it, too. :lol:

You are absolutely correct. I'm still trying to learn how this forum works and I thought I had attached this document to my original posting.
I clicked on attach files and chose the one i wanted then submitted it. Seems that I missed something.

You can find the original document and lots of information on website construction that may be of help to some of you.

http://www.Phoebemoon.com

after you get there go to copyright concerns


Happy stitching

Thats great info Karla, thanks everyone for sharing what you know. I'd hate to be doing the wrong thing when I'm trying to follow the rules. I think you just have to think about the designer and be considerate of the fact that they are making a "living" from doing this.

Thank you for posting that info, Karla! It's great to see that an e-mail to the designer paid off (most don't bite, really :D ) I'd like her website addy; I'll definitely be adding it to my list of sites to purchase from!

Sally, thanks so much for the link! Posting links to info is a great way to share it without stepping on any toes.

Bernadette, thank you for the designer perspective. It's sometimes hard to convey all of the work that goes into designing, and you did that very well. Explaining that designs are in the 'pipeline' for months, and the amount of editing and re-writing that goes into them is one thing; explaining that very deep place they come from is almost impossible!

Most of all, thank you to everyone who has posted to this thread - as a veteran of 'copyright wars' for many years now, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the very civil tone of this thread!

Bernadette Harwood ..........do you have a web site, if so can you post a link :D

I think the trouble starts when you are making multiple copies to profit.

Yes, I teach quilting and sewing at home. I also have an ebay store. Go to stores.ebay.com/auntbeesquiltsandmore
I have several patterns in the making that I have designed but not written up completely. I have one pattern in my store. My students have tested my patterns but like I wrote before, I put on them they are not to be copied but can be used in a classroom situation. I hate it when I buy a pattern and get it home and find I can't use it to make the item to sell, so I say anyone can use my patterns to make the item to sell. I also have helped a friend learn to quilt through the internet. Was a challenge and very fun.
As far as copyright I guess I'm thinking like the designer in me. I want the proceeds from my patterns and be happy to purchase what others have done. I do hope to get a few free guides out in the near future for my ebay store. I really enjoy this websight, everyone is so encouraging and nice. Enjoy, Bernadette

Bernadette,
Is the reason you haven't written up your patterns completely that you are worried about making them clear and not leaving anything out? If so, consider typing the text into word or a similar type program and then print it to Adobe. You will need an Adobe program above Reader to do this or send the document to a friend who has it to convert. Then you can listen to your instructions while Adobe reads it to you. It is very easy to spot mistakes this way. Now you are saying how do I do this. If you have reader, open an adobe file with mostly text. The more headers and pictures the less functional. If you're adding them, add them after you are sure the text is correct. Once your adobe file is open, choose view, then read out loud (it's about 1/2 way down the list) then choose page or document. Sit back and enjoy. By doing this on an existing document you will know better how to set up your page for the best results.
Happy Quilting

Sally

Thank you Sally, the reason I don't have all my patterns written is because I'm just way too busy with sewing customers, teaching classes getting my e b ay going and everything else. I will try your idea next time, thanks,Bernadette

Here you go, Roben: http://www.quiltbus.com/tabletopper.htm

Thank you Bernadette and Sally for your recent posts! The whole issue of photo copying directions is the main concern from what I've learned, more so than the idea of making several of the pattern to sell. The designer is usually thinking about mass production on the selling part anyway.

I think it's helpful to a designer when a quilter posts a photo of a new completed project and mentions where the pattern came from. I bet this site generates many sales of patterns. :D

I love looking at peoples sites going to look now :D :D I tried the e bay and the .com ....can't get there :?

Form the website Saly posted, this seems to be an important paragraph:

But, as much as that clear things up, is it saying we shouldn't be posting our work--other designer's work--on this forum? :?: :?: And what about quilt shows? I think that's where common sense comes in to play--and if someone tells where they bought the pattern, or the website they got it from--it's all good for the designer. I would think they'd be saying--"if you make this pattern--please display it anywhere you are able--just give me credit for the design and let them know where to find it." :wink:

This morning I'm singing the praises of designer Bonnie Hunter of http://Quiltville.com. What a sweetheart! One of the kits we wanted to make is Smokey Mountain Stars. Our desire is to enlarge the pattern and use our dies which would drastically change the directions. We wrote her, asked if it was ok. What we will do is to re-write the instructions using our dies, forward everything to her for approval and she is still the creator and it is her pattern. Her response is "fine with me". We will also put a link into her site so that people can look there if they like her design and want similar things.

We have also seen kits made up that tell you where to buy the pattern. I think that is not a very cool thing but to each his own. When I get something new - I want to play with it NOW! I guess I'm spoiled - LOL

As to the sell a quilted item, I'm not worrying too much about donating a quilt for a raffle, making half a dozen table runners for a church boutique. I believe that the main intent on selling is for manufacturers - thousands of something with those machines that quilt a queen in 1.5 minutes.
Happy Stitching
Back to work for me
Sally

Thanks so much for the link, Karla :D

The paragraph you quoted is accurate. Following the strict interpretation, a designer owns the copyright to the work which includes derivative works (btw, there is no magic percentage; if I change it 33% then it is mine is a fallacy.) The rights include the right to display the work as well as allow others to display it, and reproduction rights. For money or for free isn't part of the equation.

That being said; designers in all fiber media have had a long, on-going battle with persons who maliciously upload files of their work to newsgroups for any other member of the newsgroup to download. This isn't being done by accident, I assure you, nor is it new (it goes as far back as plastic canvas.) Becoming more strict on the copyright front is the only option left for designers who want to protect their work. To make matters worse, legitimate means of enforcing copyrights were hampered by the questionable practice of one coalition. There is a history here, and maybe knowing some of it will help others understand why restrictions that are in place now are necessary. Common sense went out the window with each file that was uploaded. (To this day the word 'share' makes me ill.)

I encourage contacting designers regarding the use of their patterns for a reason: exerting control over your copyrights doesn't necessarily equal a 'no', and the only way to know for sure is to ask. There is no blanket answer, because each pattern maker is different. Some may have contracts with other entities that govern what happens with some of their work - while the person may be flattered that their design is being displayed, the big distributor they work with to get their patterns into stores may not be.

For designers, it is a bit complicated; it doesn't need to be for consumers. Just ask! Keeping a file with the answers is a good idea too :wink: