Copyrights for closed business
 

I would like to teach a class using a pattern that I purchased many, many years ago. In researching the company and pattern for class members to purchase, I cannot find them! I have exhausted all my resources to find them. My assumption is that the creators of the pattern have gone out of business and the pattern is out of print. It was copyrighted in 1995.

Does the copyright law still apply? Can I photocopy the pattern for my class?

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Good Question!! I hope someone comes up with an answer.

I agree. Good question! I also hope someone has an answer.

Dina

If it was a true copyright (one of my favorite designers pursues the less expensive design patents instead), then it is still in effect. A patent would have expired by now. Patents & copyrights are never tied to whether a particular business remains active or not. In fact, it's possible that the owner(s) may have sold their Intellectual Property (patents & copyrights) to another person/entity.

http://www.inventionstatistics.com/P...e_Periods.html

And if the copyright was held by a human being, it stays in effect for 70 years after the death of that individual or it can be renewed for a longer period by the heirs.

What business or pattern? Maybe some of us have different resources.

I found a copy of the pattern on ebay and have included a link to it.

The pattern is "Home for Christmas, Simple to Sew Tree Skirt Pattern" by Nancy J Smith and Lynda S Milligan, published by Possibilities in Denver, Colorado, copyright 1995.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/351326504630...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Thanks for the help everyone.

does it cloud the issue too much if I ask why it is okay to sell a pattern on eBay without giving all or a portion of the money to the original designer? Please understand I am not trying to look for trouble or make trouble for anyone. This copyright situation is very confusing to me. I've read I think all or most posts on the subject here on the Board. There are a few that agree and some have different interpretations. Do the original people in this example, Nancy J. Smith and Lynda S. Milligan, have the right to question this sale? Or is just that no one is stealing their intellectual property? They still get credit on the pattern for it's design, just no money from the sale of it? Apparently this is okay since eBay does sell patterns. Someone please enlighten me or correct me? thanks.

Nancy J. Smith and Lynda S. Milligan published many books & patterns. Their publisher, Possibilities, is still in business.
I would contact them
http://www.possibilitiespublishingcompany.com/

Have you ever sold a paperback at a garage sale? Did you send the author and original publishing company a percentage of the proceeds of the sale? Once you purchase the book, you are free to do what you want with it. You may not re-type or photocopy the pages and publish it as your own. Same goes for a written pattern. You may give it away, trade it, or sell it. You simply cannot copy the pattern instructions and illustrations and sell them as your own work product.

Thanks for the link. I have contacted them and am awaiting a reply. I'll let you all know what I find out.

Thanks Peckish

Absolutely correct, but copying is forbidden under any circumstances (except copying portions for your own use). You cannot copy and sell or copy and give away, whether or not you are claiming it is your own work product. However you can dispose of the original pattern in any way you wish. You may even sell it for more than you originally paid, which is often the case with out of date patterns.

There are 11 of these for sale on Amazon, although many are for ridiculous prices. You can also Google the ISBN as it may be available on used book websites too.

This makes no sense - I believe you have things backwards or otherwise confused. First of all, Copyrights and Patents apply to completely different things. You can copyright a work of art, or written instructions and you apply for a patent for an invention or an idea for an invention. For instance, you can copyright a painting but you can't patent it. If you come up with a new airbrush tool for making paintings, you could apply for patent for the tool, but not copyright it (although your instruction for using the tool would be copyrighted).

Also, copyright is free - it is implied for all pieces that it applies to. You can strengthen your ability to uphold the copyright in court, should you ever need to do so, by registering your copyrighted works with the appropriate agency, but it's simply a matter of submitting a sample of the work along with a modest application fee. But as I said, it is technically copyrighted whether your submit the registration or not. Submitting the registration simply makes it easier to prove in the future that it was your original creation.

Patents on the other hand usually require the assistance of a patent attorney who specializes in the type of invention you are attempting to patent, at the cost of many thousands of dollars, along with the patent application fees, which I believe are well over $1000 themselves.

I just looked at the pattern you want to use, and while the instructions are certainly copyright protected, the design of the tree skirt would not qualify as sufficiently original work to itself be copyright protected (IMHO). What that means is that you can write your own directions (being very careful not to copy any of the directions from the original pattern - in fact don't even refer to it while writing) and use those directions for your class. When I took my first quilting class, the instructor had done that, although I have to admit her writing was not that clear, and I would have preferred to have purchased the original pattern.

I went to a Christmas in July event at a quilt shop last year. The free hand out pattern was this tree skirt! Different name but looks exactly like this. I know many made copies for their guild to pass out. Seemed to be everywhere for a few months. I probably still have the hand out somewhere, I'll look for it tomorrow.

Onebyone, I hope you can find it. That would be great!

I have written dozens of patterns and can easily write instructions for this or one similar to it. I was trying to do the right thing, plus I was trying to take the easy way out---writing instructions can be complicated.

I haven't heard back from the company yet but will let you know what they say when they respond.

Many thanks for all your input.

You can resell patterns on ebay etc., there is no copyright issue with reselling the original pattern. Someone has already paid the pattern makers with the first purchase. You cannot copy the pattern and sell it as an original.

About the tree skirt. This is a simple wedge tree skirt. I would suggest getting a wedge ruler and make your own skirt. Just measure the size of the wedge (degree) you will need from your pattern. Then you can do the point or scallop on the end. You could do solid or printed one piece wedges and solid "tips" around the edge. Let your class decide. If you get one wedge ruler, you could make templates for your class. I wouldn't fret over using this pattern. Make your own. You cannot reprint the instructions. But you can write your own. Have fun!

I looked at most of my patterns and haven't found it. I'll keep looking. It could be stuck in a quilt book.

That is not a hard pattern, strip sets sewn together and use a Dresden plate pattern to make the pieces, I would then make a solid lining OR different strip colors for other side and make it reversible. Cute.

Still an active company...they are on facebook and have a blog:

http://greatamericanquilt.blogspot.com/

You may want to contact them and ask to use the pattern.

Any copyright from 1995 would still be in effect, but if the business closed long ago and they wrote the pattern, there may not be anyone around to enforce the copyright, or care if the pattern is used in your class.

Oh gosh, I just made this and I made it out of my stack of squares without any pattern. This is a pattern that anyone can do. It is also a block in block base. I think maybe the instruction may be copyright and not the plate.....I have seen it also in magazines just different fabrics


http://www.quiltingboard.com/picture...g-t266254.html

I look at is as a car. You don't pay GM or Ford if you sell your car to someone else yet you can't go and reproduce the car if you could. Same thing with magazines. Copyrights in my opinion is that you can't make copies and sell them as your own designs. Interesting discussion.

They said they did not publish this pattern.

As many of you said, this is not a difficult pattern to make. I will just write my own. Many thanks for everyone who had ideas and suggestions.

Lynda Milligan & Nancy Smith Had a retail store in Denver, CO
called "The Great American Quilt Factory" it was an awesome
store.

Sadly they closed down before I got heavily involved in quilting.

Here is the definition of a design patent - it applies to the design of something, and is good for 15 years. (source: the sometimes fallible Wikipedia). it seems that it can apply to a quilt pattern ("design") as well as other objects. Invention can mean creating a unique pattern...
A US design patent covers the ornamental design for an object having practical utility. An object with a design that is substantially similar to the design claimed in a design patent cannot be made, used, copied or imported into the United States. The copy does not have to be exact for the patent to be infringed. It only has to be substantially similar.[SUP][2][/SUP] Design patents with line drawings cover only the features shown as solid lines. Items shown as dotted lines are not covered. This is one of the reasons Apple was awarded a jury verdict in the US case of Apple v Samsung. Apple's patent showed much of their iPhone design as broken lines. It didn’t matter if Samsung was different in those areas. The fact that the solid lines of the patent were the same as Samsung's design meant that Samsung infringed the Apple design patent.[SUP][1][/SUP]

Even if this is the case, Patents are way more expensive than copyrights.

Not any help just interested.

You may give it away, trade it, or sell it. You simply cannot copy the pattern instructions and illustrations and sell them as your own work product.

Does it work if the teacher of the class looks at this design, makes her own pattern and instructions with a little tweak her or there and gives it to her class participants? I've seen so m any quilts that are so so similar but they are sewn up in current updated fabric and called something else, even sold as something else. For example "spools" or "hour glass". I have directions in a book for an "exploding star" that I've seen stitched up and called something else or all the various chevron patterns, just to mention a few.

I designed patterns for 2002 - 2006 and had to stop because life happened. After becoming a professional
pattern designer, I learned a lot about copyright. The fact is that the designer owns the copyright until 70 years after her/his death, and then it becomes public domain. So, yes, the copyright still applies and the patterns should not be photocopied. I, too, am out of business as far as actively marketing my patterns, I still get orders for one in particular, and when I get an order, I fill it promptly. If you have the name of the designer, you might could get in touch with her and she might either be able to send you enough patterns for your class or she might release it to you to photocopy.
Marcia

marciacp
I would love to know/see your patterns. I am always looking and buying patterns. I would love to buy one from someone I "knew". Maybe I would be more motivated to get busy and finish one! Will you do a show and tell?

http://www.nancyzieman.com/blog/quil...istmas-sewing/


http://www.favequilts.com/Tree-Skirt...mas-Tree-Skirt

http://tattotatouage.com/search/Dres...Skirt+Pattern/

check some of these out too ... free online