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Originally Posted by mme3924
(Post 7350822)
What about this: A woman buys a pattern for a dress, takes that pattern and fabric which she has purchased, to a dressmaker, who makes the dress, using the purchased pattern. The dressmaker then charges the woman $$ to make the dress from the pattern the woman bought. Do you consider that stealing from whoever designed the pattern? Because money was made, using the pattern....money that was not paid to the designer of the pattern.
Seems to me that making items from a purchased pattern and profiting from the making of those items, is the same thing. It's not stealing to sell items one makes from a pattern one has bought and paid for. The pattern designer cannot reasonably expect to either control or profit from all the items that will be made from the pattern he/she designed. |
Originally Posted by mme3924
(Post 7350822)
What about this: A woman buys a pattern for a dress, takes that pattern and fabric which she has purchased, to a dressmaker, who makes the dress, using the purchased pattern. The dressmaker then charges the woman $$ to make the dress from the pattern the woman bought. Do you consider that stealing from whoever designed the pattern? Because money was made, using the pattern....money that was not paid to the designer of the pattern.
We're really dealing with 3 different issues, here, though. 1) The written pattern/instructions: Those cannot be copied except for Personal Use. Plain & Simple. There is plenty of legal precedent on that issue. Don't make copies & distribute to other people, regardless of whether you charge any money, unless you have the permission of the copyright holder. 2) What can be copyrighted: in quilts there are certain things that can be copyrighted & others that cannot. 3 layers held together by stitching cannot be copyrighted. Neither can a quilt based primarily on traditional blocks since they are held in Public Domain. In addition, now certain designs based on copyleft materials also cannot be copyrighted. Any other design can usually be copyrighted as long as it isn't substantially similar to another copyrighted work. The designer has the right to reproduce the quilt, produce other commercial items based on the quilt (similar quilts, workshops, patterns, photos), sell/lease/lend out the quilt & publicly display the quilt. 3) Untested legal opinions: Most of the time if a copyright holder (the original designer or whoever she sold her copyright/patent to: usually a pattern maker or quilting magazine) will send a notice of copyright infringement & possibly a Cease and Desist order to the offending party. The quilter receives the letter, stops making the quilts & that's the end of it. There have literally been maybe a handful or so cases related to quilting IP that reached a judgement. Lawyers are therefore left to look to other cases they think might be similar when forming their legal opinions about hypothetical trials. There are 2 camps: the first believes that selling quilts based on someone else's copyrighted design is like the Napster music sharing cases back in the late 90's. Hundreds of college kids were heavily fined. They had spent lots of money buying CD's, buying a CD burner, buying writable CD-ROM's & paying the monthly membership fee to Napster to download strangers' music, but the court still found them guilty of copyright infringement. Napster faced even heavier fines & filed for bankruptcy. This camp believes that quilters technically only buy the right to the pattern itself & that any additional rights must be directly granted (either by notice on the package or in writing) whenever such activities impact the potential market or value of the quilt design and/or pattern. The other camp doesn't stand on as much legal precedent, but believes they have a very clear, simple argument. They believe that the clear purpose of a pattern is to make something substantially similar to the item depicted. They feel that by translating a design into a pattern, the designer is implicitly giving up most, if not all, of the rights to her copyrighted/patented design. Such lawyers argue that so long as a person legally purchases one copy of instructions/pattern, that person has the right to make &/or sell unlimited quilts based on the pattern as long as they don't sell copies of the written pattern/instructions It's a tougher argument to make, but stranger cases have been won. Personally, I think it would be a great loss for the arts & quilting communities if designs cannot be protected. Who would bother to spend 3 months of their life coming up with a beautiful new quilt design for $2,000 if they could use that same amount of time to replicate others' work and make $12,000? |
Originally Posted by Buckeye Rose
(Post 7350838)
When you purchase a pattern, you are purchasing just the written instructions to make a quilt. The person who wrote the pattern and copyrighted same pattern CANNOT dictate what you do with that pattern. All he/she can do is lawfully expect that you make no copies of same pattern to sell or give away. You can sell that pattern. You can make as many copies as needed for your own use. You can use that pattern to make as many quilts as desired. You can sell those quilts. If you have ever made your own clothes, you most likely purchased a pattern such as Simplicity or McCalls. Those patterns are the same thing. You don't have to call and get permission if you make a pair of pants for someone else using the pattern you purchased. You don't have to label those pants with the pattern makers name. You don't have to ask permission if you want to use that pattern to make three more pair because they fit nicely. That pattern maker can print whatever they want on the pattern, but that doesn't make it true.
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After reading all the back and forth, I think all of you should quit quilting, sewing, knitting, embroidering, painting, etching or whatever else you do because someone, somewhere, past or present has already done it, made a pattern and written instructions. Obviously, you shouldn't copy Jane Doe's instructions for making a four patch and sell them as your own, but copyrighting a four patch pattern is absurd to start with. froggyintexas
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Originally Posted by Bree123
(Post 7350930)
Personally, I think it would be a great loss for the arts & quilting communities if designs cannot be protected. Who would bother to spend 3 months of their life coming up with a beautiful new quilt design for $2,000 if they could use that same amount of time to replicate others' work and make $12,000? I believe in crediting the pattern designer, definitely but IMHO demanding reverence for someone who wrote a pattern, does not help the arts and quilting community. If you don't want an item made, sold, or given from your pattern then don't write patterns. Don't teach classes either because wouldn't that be the same? |
Originally Posted by cashs_mom
(Post 7350848)
Have you had a problem doing this? Or heard of someone who has?
No. But it seems parallel to me of the case in which a person buys a pattern, makes objects using that pattern, and then sells those objects. I'm with those who say that intellectual property or copyright does not extend to items made from the pattern but simply to the pattern itself. That the pattern (not items made from it) cannot be duplicated and sold, nor can anyone who purchased that pattern pass it off as her/his own. That's where I think copyright applies. |
Originally Posted by Bree123
(Post 7350930)
There are 2 camps: the first believes that selling quilts based on someone else's copyrighted design is like the Napster music sharing cases back in the late 90's. Personally, I think it would be a great loss for the arts & quilting communities if designs cannot be protected. Who would bother to spend 3 months of their life coming up with a beautiful new quilt design for $2,000 if they could use that same amount of time to replicate others' work and make $12,000? |
I tested a pattern for someone once - an interesting experience. It is difficult to write fool-proof instructions.
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Rose
(Post 7350838)
When you purchase a pattern, you are purchasing just the written instructions to make a quilt. The person who wrote the pattern and copyrighted same pattern CANNOT dictate what you do with that pattern. All he/she can do is lawfully expect that you make no copies of same pattern to sell or give away. You can sell that pattern. You can make as many copies as needed for your own use. You can use that pattern to make as many quilts as desired. You can sell those quilts. If you have ever made your own clothes, you most likely purchased a pattern such as Simplicity or McCalls. Those patterns are the same thing. You don't have to call and get permission if you make a pair of pants for someone else using the pattern you purchased. You don't have to label those pants with the pattern makers name. You don't have to ask permission if you want to use that pattern to make three more pair because they fit nicely. That pattern maker can print whatever they want on the pattern, but that doesn't make it true.
You can sell what you make from it. Pattern companies sometimes want you to think you can't, but if you buy a copyrighted product the only thing you cannot do is make copies of it. Copyright means literally the right to COPY and that is owned by someone else. You can take that pattern and make as many of those items as you want from one pattern and sell them, give them away, burn them, whatever. Even if the pattern company says you can't, the law says you can. they do not have control over what you make with it and what you do with what you make. Those are false claims. Another example, books are copyrighted. You can lend sell or give a book away that you buy. You cannot go to your printer and copy all six hundred pages and sell or give that away. You can also buy several hundred books and make some weird modern art sculpture with them even if the author of the book has printed on the inside of the book jacket that you cannot do so. You can as long as you buy all 100 copies and don't print them off yourself. Does that help? |
Originally Posted by dunster
(Post 7349093)
Most quilt patterns in the US are protected by the US copyright, which lasts the lifetime of the author plus 70 years. Many of the rules regarding US copyright are different from those given by the source quoted above.
IF the pattern is registered. Sandy |
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