Did I pay too much?
 

Hi, All,

Pricing in regards to sewing machines always befuddles me--different models, machines from different brands that are actually the same machine but priced differently, internet prices versus LQS prices, machines that are the same make and model but are different and, therefore, differently priced....aaah! So much mystery! I want to give my money to my local shops, but I always leave wishing everything had been more transparent.

I have been in the market for a no-fuss, lightweight machine for travel and classes. I found one--a Janome MyStyle 100--and I think I'm really going to like it. I traded in an older, defunct machine, which defrayed some of the cost of the new MyStyle, and I ended up paying $249. The woman at the store told me that the Janome MyStyle was typically priced at $449 and that their standard was a two hundred dollar discount for trade-ins. Great, right? However, when I went to the Janome website, it listed the MyStyle's MSRP at $349. I brought this up to the woman at the store, thinking that I might be on the verge of a smoking hot deal if I could get $200 off a machine that's normally $349. She said the machine on the website must have had fewer functions than the one I was buying. I didn't push her--after all, I was still getting a good deal.

When I got home, I double-checked my new machine with the description on the website and, sure enough, they're exactly the same machine. You could argue that, at $249, I still got a great discount, but I'm uncomfortable with the discrepancy and I'm wondering if maybe I got swindled. I called a couple of other Janome dealers in my area, but they didn't have the MyStyle.

I know the good folks at those stores need to make their money too--and that they have a lot of competition, especially with the internet. I'm really not trying to be greedy. I just want to understand. Are there good reasons for a store to price a machine a hundred dollars over the manufacturer website's MSRP? Should I have pushed her more on the price, even though I was still getting a discount? What would you all have done?

Finally, am I the only one who finds pricing in regards to sewing machines unnecessarily secretive and complex? (This is not really a rhetorical question--I'm perfectly willing to admit that it really might be all in my head!)

Thank you all so much--in advance and in appreciation for all the wonderful tips and advice you dole out to this community!

Best,
A

I agree with you; pricing is secretive and complex. I find it odd that sewing machines are treated like cars when it comes to pricing.

I had dealt with the only Janome dealer in my area for a number of years and wanted to upgrade to a Janome 8900. I found their price was $900 more than anywhere else. I ultimately bought it from a dealer in another city who was having a show special. What's interesting is that the show the special was in conjunction with wasn't anywhere near the shop. It was baffling, but I was happy to take advantage of their pricing, and they in fact did become my dealer because they are way better than my local dealer in every way - service, instruction, friendliness, cleanliness, and price.

What surprises me about your situation is that there would be such a big difference on a machine that price and that the dealer must have realized that you could easily find out the MSRP.

I have found there are times where I like who I'm dealing with enough that price is not my main consideration. For example, with the dealer I ended up purchasing from, they are so much nicer in so many ways that I will purchase from them in the future even if their price is a bit higher.

Lynda

You got a good machine at a decent price, I'd say. Not outstanding, but fair. The dealers have to make money because they have the overhead, but they also offer customer service, classes, and sometimes a year of free maintenance which you don't get with the online purchases. If you spent less than $249 online, for example, on a machine that needs a tune -up or cleaning or minor repair in a year or two, that's another $50-100 depending on the shop . So you will end up spending it sometime or another.

I don't know why all the secrecy. I don't like to pit one dealer against another, nor play the haggle game when i just really don't know what kind of wiggle room they have . It's honestly preventing me from getting more serious about a big Janome I want . I want them to like me as a loyal customer, but I also want the best price and feel good about the service relationship too, without going inconveniently far .

If I feel the seller/dealer of anything is withholding their best price when I'm ready to buy, I halt. If they try to upsell me too much, it's a turn-off. If they badmouth another dealer, I don't appreciate that either. It would make things easier if the dealer's sticker prices were a lot closer to the selling price, just a smidge higher than online, huh? That would tell me they've got room to move and still make a profit, and I won't feel gouged.

I once questioned the price when something was more than MSRP and was told it's only a suggestion, stores can price it differently. Maybe the higher price is to allow for the discount. Kind of the way many retail stores price higher so they can put things on sale at whatever % off.

It is hard. I think service/support is very important. Last year I had a choice between Janome & Bernina. Both dealers in town. Spent a month trying both & checking online. Then found out the Janome dealer was selling & wouldn't do a trade-in. She also bad mouthed the new owner of her fabric shop to Janome and the dealer is now 1-1/2 hr away. Bernina ended up $150 more to start but service is in town. I'm still learning what my Bernina can do but I am enjoying it even through I could have gotten something less pricy online. Sorry I rambled on. Can you get the service & questions answered where you purchased? That is probably worth the difference in price.

I would also take into consideration the amount you were given for your trade in. Some stores are more generous with that than others. My dealer doesn't even take trade ins.
Also consider that you got rid of a machine that you no longer wanted without having to sell it yourself and got a new machine at a price that you were comfortable paying. Hopefully you also now have a good dealer that you can feel comfortable asking questions and maybe getting some extra lessons from.
Enjoy your new machine.

Paying cash is king. No trade in. You were happy with the price now get sewing.
sandy

Wow, this thread is enlightening. It all sounds like mattress shopping which I hate.

I only have 3 machines, all vintage. One I bought new in the 1980's at Sears for a hundred bucks, one was my Mom's and one is from Craigslist. Makes me feel blessed that I was spared the retail shopping experience.

You got a good deal. Maybe not the lowest price but a good value.

I bought a new Bernina B530 about fifteen months ago from a dealer that handled many brands of machines. It was priced for a sale. It was a floor model and there was a trade in discount. I said I did not want to trade in my Bernina 1130. The sales person consulted with the owner (sounds like a car deal!). They agreed to give the same price and I kept my old machine. This was great because I did not want to purchase all of the feet again. Of course, the feet from the 1130 do not fit the B530. I think it is called 'marketing'. The price on the new feet were more than double what I had paid for the feet on the 1130. I did buy a maintenance agreement for two years because it was less than two checks for an independent service person. I think the price structuring is not meant to be user r=friendly and you must do your homework and decide what is important to you. Dealers are not in business to do you favors; they are interested in the biggest bottom line possible. I am always ready to 'walk away'.

I'd like to think the sales-person there was just mistaken about the MSRP. It has never been $449. It routinely sells for $249 but it is has been around for several years and at one point, it was selling closer to $200. In those years, Janome has had a couple of steep price increases across the board. It is up to each dealer what prices are so maybe the one you purchased from is generally just higher than some others. It wasn't a screaming deal but I suspect based on what you say, they will not make $$ on the machine you traded. If they re-sell it at all, it will have to be completely serviced first and may possibly need replacement parts and they'd need to provide some type of warranty either 30-90 days at least. It may've seemed risky to her that she could re-sell it. The fact remains that you will be a little more wary of that dealer now if you one day want to trade up or buy another machne. I would feel the same as you....she should not defend the MSRP without at least checking first...but i think you'd have paid the same regardless...she just wanted you to feel you were getting something for your trade-in but i don't think that was worth misrepresenting the facts if in fact thats what she did.

A lot of companies do this. Like if you buy a car straight up, you get a better deal than with a trade in. When I bought my serger at a show, they didn't even mention trade ins. When I was talking with them they said they couldn't give me the machine at the show cost, plus the 5yr warranty plus all the accessories and do the trade in. They'd lose in the end. Plus if you'd ordered it online you would have paid shipping so I'm sure that would have been at least half of additional cost you paid the store. And when you buy from a store they are more willing to help if you have a problem with the machine than if you bought it some place else.

My dealer has a little card on each display machine that lists MSRP, the trade-in discount, any other discounts/sales they're running, any freebies or extras they're throwing in, and the final price. They really don't seem to do a lot of haggling from there, it's pretty much all laid out on the table and that's that.

I like it that way. I'm not a good haggler, and would rather just see the price I'm going to be charged and decide if I want to buy or not on my own time. I might be able to get a better deal from another dealer but I like my dealer and want them to stick around.

Unfortunately, I found a real estate listing for their shop; it looks like they're getting ready to retire. I'm happy for them but sad for me!!

Buying a DSM is as difficult as buying a new car. You have to realize that a brick and mortar store has more expenses that they have to cover than an online store doesn't. Who is going to help you with lessons and be there when you have had an accident? You just have to make the personal decision between service and price. Sometimes you can make up the difference with price by asking for free maintenance service for a few years. It is just like dealing with buy a new car.

Its all pretty dicey. If the majority of sewing machine shoppers were male, this would change and fast. My dealer here stopped putting prices on machines at all. If you're interested in one, you have to ask the sales person who then has to go look it up in a book so if you don't do your homework before you shop, you could find yourself looking at a machine that costs 3x more than you want to spend.

MSRP means manufacturer's "suggested" retail price. Some can charge more or less. I always take into consideration service availability and I check out reviews. When you walk into the shop, do they out source the repairs or handle the repairs themselves. Also what is the turn around time for repairs? All those situations factor in to the cost. Also attitude makes a big difference. Do your due diligence!

Do you like the machine? Was it within your budget? The deal is done. No sense in fretting. Enjoy.

I quit buying Berninas, no matter how well I like them because of the same stuff! I am NOT going to futz around with someone who (seems to me, anyway...) is looking for an opportunity to nail me on the pricing. IF you have a product for sale, what is wrong with at least putting the MSRP out there? Then let the dealers go at it instead of making the buyer get them the best price? I just bought two new Janome's which would have been Berninas...but no thanks!

I think a sewing machine is like anything else we buy out there, because like around the holiday's they have more sales and better deals. I talked to a dealer he said he went to a shop were they smothered him with deal after deal trying to make him buy a sewing machine. He said he didn't like that about a dealer being so pushy and sale like that, he felt when your more friendly and nicer to people they come back to the shop.

I think you got a good deal! Worrying about if you got screwed is counter productive! Start sewing and have fun with your new machine!

The "S" in MSRP stands for "suggested."

I had Bernina 820 and it gave me so much trouble I finally traded it in for a 550 quilyers edition. The woman that owns the shop traded me even for the 550 and traded even for the insert for my table. All the feet I bought for my 820 fit the 550.

But another fascet of anyone's business is repeat business and recomendations from established customers. Small business cannot afford to have one time only customers. Even if they are the only business of that kind in town, repeat business is a large and potentially growing percentage of their business. The not great experience gets "out" and that's not good. Customers are not like paper plates - disposable - even if some businesses think so.

Pat

How do you find the MSRP on the new machines? Online there is information on the specs, features and loads of videos, but NO prices. I like to have an idea before I'm in the store. Now that prices are $8,000 to $12,000, it's good to be prepared.

The Bernina dealer closest to me has a price tag on all the machines. Her shop wins awards at the Bernina Convention for being one of the best. Her prices are much lower then the MSRP.

When I bought my Janome Jem, the dealer wouldn't honor the promotion that was buy a Jem get a quilter's foot package free. He said he wasn't doing the promotion. He said he would give me a carrying bag. The bag came free with any of the Jems then. I bought it elsewhere. I have never went back to that dealer.

Oh when my community group decided to buy Janome Jems for a learn to sew class and this same dealer thought he would get the contract. I squashed that in a second.

You can always get a lower price online. This is great at the start for your pocketbook, "BUT" then comes the other things. Online stores have customer service, "BUT" it's not in person like at the local store. On line sales something come with some extras, "BUT" so do local dealers. If you need a tune up some of the online stores are not able to help you, "BUT" that means you have to find a local store to help you. Online stores can send you DVD's for learning to use your new machine (you can also find how to's on line), "BUT" your local store has a live person to walk you through (I smart, but sometimes I need that personal help - I'm more of a "Monkey see, Monkey do" kinda gal). Your local dealer will be happy to do classes for you after you have made an on line purchase, but you will have to pay for them. In my area the price runs $45.00 per hour for privet help with out of store purchase. I purches local, because the local dealer is a small business just as I am (I like to be supported locally and I like to support locally too). Also when I have had trouble, I'm able to get help right now from a person. My serger is older and one of the harder to thread (at the time of purchase it was new and so cool, but not like the new ones today), I am still able to take my machine in and they will tread it for me every time (looking at the YOUtube video on threading my machine is of NO help, because it is such a bear). So for me the $100.00 difference between online and local shopping is no savings. I think that the savings is like so many other things, it's personal (for me no savings it would end up costing me more money over time, but for you it might be a great deal and not cost you more). Your purchase needs to be something you are comfortable with, and when your comfortable then it's a "Good Deal".

Did you factor the cost of shipping? Sometimes I find that is exhorbidant.

Hi, All,

Thanks for all the advice and support. I think y'all are right: I got a decent deal for a machine that was exactly what I wanted: beautiful stitch quality, no bells and whistles, lightweight, and mechanical (I don't know why, but, for some reason, I think a mechanical machine is better for traveling).

Still, I do wish pricing as related to sewing machines was more transparent. Someone on this thread compared the process to walking into a car dealership and that feels more or less accurate. I don't want to disparage the people who work at these stores, especially not the woman who sold me the Janome MyStyle--who was patient, helpful, answered all my questions, and sold me a good machine. I just wish more stores were like Sewnoma's local shop, which--as she mentioned earlier in this thread--tagged each machine with a card that listed MSRP, trade-in, sales, etc. It wasn't so much the price of my new machine that bothered me (it was, after all, about what I had been planning to spend) as the fact that their "original" price was so much higher than the MSRP. Furthermore, the fact that nothing about their pricing or trade-in policy was written anywhere for a customer to verify or look up (not on a receipt, not on their website, etc.). One can do a lot of research on specific machines before walking into a store--and I did--but if I can't do any research about the store itself or verify anything an employee tells me about their various policies, then they'll always have the upper hand and, at least theoretically, be able to make things up on the spot without my being able to say boo.

But, I'm going to stop thinking about this now--and take more of y'all's advice: to ENJOY my new machine!

Thanks again,
A

While I do understand where you (original poster) are coming from...I have to honestly say that I would never purchase a sewing machine via the internet. By going through a dealer to purchase a machine, you are also gaining the dealer's expertise and support. While you may be buying a very basic machine, if there are any issues with it, your dealer should stand behind the sale. Just my opinion.

My big objection would be being lied to. I never afterwards trust anyone who lies to me. Of course, had she told you that both machines were the same, she may have lost a sale. Still......

You got the machine you wanted, and a discount which you were happy with, so I'd stop thinking about it.....if I could. But I might, next time I'm at the dealership, politely let the woman know that I knew she'd been less than honest.

When you buy online from Amazon or some other online business, they don't have to pay overhead, so can sell cheaper. The LQS doesn't get the same wholesale price as Amazon, because Amazon buys thousands of machines at the same time. Your LQS may buy 10 at at time. so doesn't make as much money on the sale as Amazon does. However, when you buy from a LQS, you get a warranty, classes, and someone to answer your questions. If something goes wrong with a machine you bought online, and IF it has a warranty, you'd have to ship it somewhere for service.

Also, some of the machines on Amazon are made specifically to be sold online, and are stripped down. There are certain models of Juki machines that we won't sell, because the customer can get a better price online, so we don't bother with that particular model.

I know Bernina's policy is that their dealers are not allowed to post prices, because they want you to buy from your LOCAL Bernina dealer -- they don't want dealers to have to compete against each other. On their website, they advertise the MSRP price, which is WAY higher than what you'd actually pay at the store. And a dealer who orders more machines, gets a bigger price break. But the individual dealers get to set their own price, within certain peramaters set by Bernina.

There are rules that have to be followed in order to be a "dealer" of any sewing machine. Amazon doesn't have to follow those rules.

By purchasing that machine under the janome name, you probably paid a little more than buying the same janome manufactured machine with a different brand name. Having said that, $250 is not an outrageous price got that machine. It is fair. No bargain. But certainly fair. If you get excellent service from your dealer, you did good. Please understand, however, you bought a $200 sewing machine. It's fine. It's very lightweight & portable. You will love it for classes. In an industry where machines cost any where from $69 at Walmart to $15,000 at dealers, you get what you pay for.

Seriously, y'all think you can buy your machine on line or at a show & expect you'll get the same service as if you buy at LQS? Have you ever considered that the LQS salesperson is much like a waitress (dependent on commissions - like tips?). The salespeople at shows LIE. Maybe the dealer gets a few

Bucks for machine sold at a show, but the gal who teaches you how to use a machine bought elsewhere has been robbed of her sales commission & is just being nice - hoping to get the next sale. On line sales are worst Consumers buy machines at a marginal profit from Amazon but expect great customer service at the LQS for machines bought on-line. Fair is fair. Rock bottom prices = zero service. Fair, honest dealers support their products with good prices, free classes, warranty service & compassionate personnel. Buy local, save money and establish good reationships

Just what do you do if a dealer doesn't carry the brand you want and won't order it?
Local Brother dealer wanted nothing to do with the PQ1500S. Wouldn't order it. I've asked Viking and Pfaff dealers about their quilters, and they prefer to sell sit downs or frame like Tin Lizzie or Juki. A Babylock dealer would get me a Jane if I asked. Janome does have the 2010 in the store. I wanted the Brother.

You start shopping out of town. If the store carries other supplies, so much the better. Too bad for the locals in that case. If the dealer you bought the machine from can schedule a class for you, you can drive there at your convenience. It's mostly local dealers at shows except for the big quilting machines and software.

However, I do not expect warranty work from the dealer as I didn't buy it there, but I would expect him to order an accessory or part I want.

Some stores do offer classes and you can use one of their machines in a class. If all you want is technique that is not machine related, those classes do work and since they charge for them, you can take it with a different machine.

If you live in a high density population area, you probably can find a local dealer. The largest town south of us only has 1 LQS. A lot drive here or to Denver to shop. There have been posts here where people need to drive 80 miles to a decent dealer or fabric store.