Ditto!

I guess that is what I was trying to say .when I started this thread. I did not mean to offend anyone, like someone else said, if you enjoy it, go for it. I used to paint and draw when I was young and a year or so ago I got an art studio program for my computer. I still considerd it my work since I am moving the mouse and doing my own drawing and painting . The computer is not doing it. It just makes it easier to correct your mistakes and mix colors. Even though it is "virtiul" (sp?) I am the one doing the drawing or painting.

Honestly -- and I will likely get lambasted for this -- but I have to agree with Blockhead to some extent. Anyone who hand quilts or does machine quilting without the assistance of a computer is quilting -- you're the one controlling the output of the needle, and the result is wholly up to you. But if you're using a computer that does all the quilting for you, well you're not really quilting, are you? You're creating a quilt, yes, but you're not actually quilting...the computer is.

To take katiebear's drawing analogy a little further:

a) If I draw a picture on a piece of paper, then I can say that I'm an artist.
b) If I draw a picture on the computer using a graphics program, then I would still call myself an artist. It was my mouse (or graphic pen) strokes that caused the image to be created.
c) If I click a single button within a program, and it draws the picture for me -- am I still an artist? That, to me, is the equivalent of using a computer to do your quilting.

That's just my own opinion, and I hope I won't get too badly stomped on for it. Really, when it comes down to it, if you're enjoying what you're doing and producing, who cares what others think?

I agree

Shaverg would you care to share how you design your labels on the computer?

I got the same kind of argument when I started digital scrapbooking instead of paper and scissors. But it takes a lot of talent to use the computer and I imagine a lot to set up the quilt correctly. I don't think it's cheating :)

If you enjoy what you're doing what differece does it make? That's like making a cake. How many people do you know these days who make a cake from scratch? It is so much easier to start with a mix. That's my opinion (we all have one).

I think it is just taking advantage of the advancements in quilting. There are those who think machine pieced isn't real quilting. Still others, machine quilted isn't real quilting. I say if the technology is out there, use it if you want to. I've never tried a long arm machine. I don't have access to one to borrow or room for one of my own. But I certainly take advantage of technology whenever I can...computers are my case in point. We didn't have them when I first started teaching, but I sure liked 'em when we did get them. I got pretty good at averaging grades in my head, but still had to use a calculator to be sure. Then had to "bubble" my grades (for 125 kids)in to submit to the ad bldg for report cards. Lots easier to just press the button for submit and be done with it! Yea!!

I use a microsoft publisher program. I pick the style, size and color of the font I want to use, add clip art, photo or take a copy of the quilt block used from Eq6 and add that. I have the HP quilt label program, but most of the labels are way too large and can't be adjusted down by much. Then I print it on the ink jet printer sheets I get from JoAnns. I try to design 2-3 labels per sheet, because the sheets can be expensive. I use the sheets that have to be sewn on, which I fold under the edge and sew on by hand.

I never enter quilt shows anymore for that reason Imay have the wrong idea but I think the catagorys are all wrong there should be a place for the hand quilters as well as the people who quilt their own I do all my own work or otherwise I do not feel it would totaly be my quilt so I do my thing and forget the quilt shows that is even the fairs
sorry my idea Dodie

No. The quilts are not massed produced.

I'm a longarm quilter and did at first consider and computerized machine but didn't go that route in the long run. I actually like doing the work myself. But if I ever added another machine my husband said he would get the computerized one so he could just set it and let it sew while he watches a game!LOL!!!

I'm with those that wonder if "cheating" is an important question.

Unless you are entering a quilting contest where the rules state that it all has to be made my hand. Or something like that. Does it really matter what techniques or machinery you use?

For me I do most things by hand but that's because I'm left handed and never made friends with a sewing machine.

Do what gives you the results you want.

Whatever it takes. A quilt top stored away is of no value. I believe in using my quilts to sleep under. A finished quilt is the best of all. I didn't know there were quilt police out there....It's your quilt and quilt it how you choose. Happy Quilting.

I don't think cheating is the right word. No, it's not the same as the time that goes into a free motion, or a stencil and domestic machine quilting, or a hand quilted quilt. But it's handmade all the same, and therefore, wonderful.

I have just seen, for the first time, one of these computerized LA quilting machines. I have to admit I thought "cheating" too. Personally I don't care for them. I admire the LA'er who can make that machine humm and make beautiful designs "by hand" like Green Fairy. I do not care for perfection where a quilt is concerned. If perfection is what I wanted I would buy a comercial "quilt" made entirely by hand. IMO computers take the art out of quilting.

To me this is the difference in "homemade" and "handmade". It may not seem big to some, but if I sew and quilt or make a cake from scratch myself, I would consider it "handmade". If I turn on a machine and it does everything for me, or use a mix, then I would consider it "homemade". If I sent something out to be quilted for me, it makes no difference to me how they do it, since it does not affect my input to the project.

Well, now I know more I didn't know I didn't know! :lol: I didn't know those long arm machines would work on their own! I thought you had to make the designs by moving the machine yourself. I couldn't imagine how someone could make those beautiful designs so even by hand. But it sounds like--from reading the postings--that some are done that way. Can the long arms work either way or does it depend on the machine? So much I still don't know!

There are computerized "brains" available for many long-arms. The QBot and PCQuilter just to name two. If you google either of those you can watch demos on them. They're very interesting and just like embroidery machines except very large scale. And very pricey too...

Please get me the name of the machine that quilts all by itself!!! I have 20 tops waiting to be quilted.
Please, Please send me the name.

Hi I don't think it is cheating at all as I do digitize and do machine embroidery it is just a quick way to do things as i have AR bad in my hand and do machine quilting no way could i do hand sewing . i do do hand binding at times if my hands let me lol. i keep them moving. I hear my mom in the back round use them fingers LOL

It depends on what you consider quilting to be. If you're a purist artist and have the skills and time to do the hand quilting, then that's part of your "art". If you love to make quilt tops and have someone else do the quilting, or like me, have arthritis in your hands and cannot do the quilting by hand, you make the quilt tops and have them quilted by your long armer. Then when someone admires a quilt you take credit for your part and give credit to the long armer who does that part. Unless you consider yourself a purist, quilting is a hobby and cannot be judged by anyone but you. How can you "cheat" when you're doing "hobby work" for your own personal enjoyment. That's what a hobby supposed to be....for your own pleasure.

I don't consider computerized quilting cheating at all. I don't see any difference between following a board with a stylus or a computerized pattern; is the board/stylus much different than a paper patten or stencil and stitch regulator?

There is no such thing as a machine that will quilt all on its own; each top is different in the accuracy of piecing, straightness of borders, etc. and every bit of that requires skill and experience to deal with in order to have a quilt come off the frame looking as good as possible. There is a lot more to long arm quilting than pushing a machine around, just as there is a lot more to piecing than slapping a couple of pieces of fabric together.

Then there is economics; are we willing to pay appropriately for the artistry many long arm quilters provide? A lot of times, the answer to that is 'no' - I hear many complaints about the high cost of having a quilt done. All-over quilting is less expensive, yes; but I wouldn't want to stand there day after day doing it over and over. ;)

Katiebear1, I have to ask: Do you consider it cheating if you load your dishwasher and let it clean your dishes?
lol

It takes time to design, cut, and sew your quilt so what is not homemade about that. I send my quilts out to be quilted because I dont have the space to put a machine and I dont consider none of it cheating

Definitely not cheating, just getting finished so I can move on to the next project.

Katiebear1...I think I understand what you meant to say. I too am in the infant stage of this wonderful world of quilting. We, as newbies, are still trying to learn the basics of making a quilt. We, as newbies, are still learning how to square our blocks, make our seams match, attempt to sandwich a quilt with minal lumps, do some form of quilting, and put on binding with good corners. Due to lack of experience, supplies, and probably money, we are attempting to do this as simple and basic as possible. There are many supplies, rulers, and wonderful machines that are not at our level of experience. They will come! As we learn and improve our skills we will feel that what we produce will warrant something better. You may excell in doing your quilts all by hand whereas some of us (me included) look forward to getting new toys. New toys cost money, and since this a hobby, will come later. I have admired ANY quilt..no matter how simple or intricate. Someone has taken the time to design the quilt. ALL quilts are beautiful and made with love. The only one cheated, is the one who can not see the beauty. (IMHO)

There are those who think quilt panels are cheaters too. I've always thought that if a quilt panel introduced someone to quilting, it was okay. I agree with the poster who says "there are no police." It's the most creative feeling in the world to free oneself from what the "quiltzillas" think must be done. I read that when Faith Ringgold started quilting, the know-it-alls said to her that she really wasn't quilting. Her work sits in museums today and sells for thousands of dollars. :lol:

I still think it would be home made.

You know, when I first started quiltin (by hand) the only machine quilting I saw was just a very simple side to side all over the same. I didn't like that. I have always hand quilted and until just lately hand pieced. But after seeing all the beautiful free motion quilts you girls and gents have done, I just drool over them. They are real works of art. at the same time, I would not want to be judged in the same group with them. Not that I have ever entered a quilt contest. If perfection were my goal, I would never get there. Of all the quilts I have made, I have yet to make one that was. But my family and friends love them, that's all that matters. I really don't want a long arm. Only because I would never understand the technology. I am technically challanged. I just love to hand quilt.

Everybody has a different choice of toys for their hobbies.... bass boats instead of row boats; motorcycles instead of bicycles; router instead of whittling knife. To each their own... it's all about what we personally enjoy. I like FMQ, but love to see the patterns created by a long arm. It all sends chills down my back... and I love it!

This was tough for me but I have done a major mental re-arrangement and attitude adjustment on this. 2 years ago I had the privilege of joining a quilting chapter in the retirement community where I live and so many ladies I've met here used to hand quilt but can't anymore for a variety of reasons. Some can cut but can't sew at all so they have someone else do the piecing and someone else do the machine quilting. They hate it but it's the only way they can continue to be part of our quilting world. It made me realize that could happen to me too one day down the road so I'd better not be judgemental or critical. I started out doing everything by hand but after having to reconstruct my first two hand pieced quilts vowed never again and now machine piece and hand quilt. That's taking a modification now as I'm beginning to learn to machine quilt but still do the detail quilting by hand so who knows what I'll do in the future. We are just plain lucky to have a variety of choices available to all of us so we can continue to enjoy our quilting however we approach it. The machine quilted quilts are gorgeous and I sure can't argue with that but I personally do prefer the lovely, soft, cuddly hand quilted ones the most. My idea of cheating is when I buy a printed panel and hand quilt it but I also always dress them up with pieced borders. Cheating? Due to where I live, it's necessary for me to respect the choices of others and encourage them to continue to participate with us as quilting is so good for all of us. I too wish they could continue to enjoy the hand quilting but you know, I've also meant many who only touch a needle to put a new one into their quilting machines - they will not hand sew anything for any reason and that's ok too.
Patty

Amma,
Exactly and I agree with you. I replied to the original post so it'll be coming through soon. I could never say to someone that they can't or aren't quilters because they use a method different from mine when in reality, everything I do is different from what anyone else does. I hope you and I both can continue to quilt for as long a possible and enjoy the process no matter where the new ways take us and thank goodness for the changes that come about to make it easier for us to continue.
Hugs
Patty

Sharon,
Good for you. I too am learning how to machine quilt but my family will continue to get my machine pieced hand quilted items. For my quilt chapter we are required to make charity quilts and I won't hand quilt those but machine quilt them. I'm making a gift right now and it's machine quilted with hand quilted detailing so I can complete it more quickly. It's still a beautiful quilt but is different from my normal style and that's ok because my style is currently evolving. Enjoy your quilting.
Hugs
Patty

Dodie,
The quilt show we have here has such designations and thank goodness they do. If I were to enter a machine pieced, hand quilted quilt, it will NOT compete with a machine pieced, professionally quilted quilt. Nor will it compete with any quilt that is machine quilted - they have their own categories but the hand quilting categories are very few as there are very few of us in the guild. In fact when I moved here 4 years ago, I met several hand quilters who were turned away because they weren't prolific enough. I was lucky enough to get into a chapter 2 years ago and now we are up to 8 hand quilters in my chapter as the other ladies decided that if I'm brave enough to admit to hand quilting, they would too and it's been fun to see.
Hugs
Patty

It is a matter of semantics, when someone asks me the question "Is it handmade" I clarify it with, "I sewed it on the sewing machine or it was all hand sewn, but yes it is handmade by me" vs being purchased in a store or from someone else.

I apologize-I should have phrased that differently. I don't consider a self-quilting machine cheating any more than I would loading my dishwasher and letting it do my dishes for me. I think it is all up to you. I have seen many hand quilted quilts that are beautiful and took a lot of hours, but the quilter was happy to hand quilt. When I first started quilting, I hand quilted a lot as well, but now it is much easier to load it on the frame and quilt it. It isn't self quilting of course, but it is by a machine not by hand. But, for me it is quicker and I can move on to something else. So if you think it is cheating and you are happy with hand quilting, then go for it. I admire your patience and your ability to hand quilt and I know that each stitch will be stitched with love. You can't beat that.

I just tell people that I machine piece and hand quilt and the design of the quilts are 100% mine using a variety of patterns I've collected from quilting magazines and books over the past 46 year years. Thus far, the work is totally mine but if I ever complete a top that I'm not willing to quilt for some reason, I won't think twice about hiring a professional to quilt it for me but I hope that day never comes but at my age, one never knows. A year ago I had a very serious surgery and even made arrangements with two of my quilting friends to see to it that if I couldn't complete my next to the youngest granddaughter's quilt, would they please see to it that it was completed so she'd have it. It was over half way quilted and I even gave them permission to finish it by machine quilting it even though I was hand quilting. The main thing was to see to it she got her last Grammy quilt but luckily I was able to complete it and give it to her. Now I'm finishing up a quilt for my youngest granddaughter and then all will have gotten their twin quilts from me.

I know what you mean because I have the same question about copying a fully-developed pattern. IMHO the only "cheating" would happen if the quilt was deliberately misrepresented or mislabeled.

Personally, I would be perfectly OK with using an automated or programmed quilting process because I do not like the actual quilting as much as sewing the blocks/tops.

For me, the question is more about entering automated quilts alongside quilts done by manually-controlled longarms - is that fair?

Of course not, it is just sending your quilt off to quilt camp just like many of us send our children:)