Mid arm, long arm, stand up, sit down?
 

I don't mind researching ... I actually like it. HOWEVER, I've spent enough time (so far) that I could have made a few quilts! I tried a Juki 2200QVP and fell in love in about 5 minutes. In reality, I don't really have space for a frame and am not ready to make a $9,000 investment (I don't do large quilts). The upside is I have a dealer 10-15 minutes away which is important to me. And the Juki moved so easily I felt like I could FMQ better.

So I'm researching mid-arm/sit-down machines. Unfortunately, dealers are 1.5 to 2.5 hours away ... a long drive just to try a machine. I know you are going to tell me to go to a show ... and I will ... but the last one I attended only had the "big" guys there (Gammill, etc.) which isn't what I need. I've researched the HQ, Bailey, Brother, etc. But with no dealers nearby I'm hoping some will show up at the Charlotte and Salisbury shows coming up soon

I know some of you prefer a sit-down for health reasons. Others the LA's because you do large quilts. Has anyone used both? Did you FMQ better standing or sitting? I don't plan to quilt for others ... just for charity mostly and for myself. Any suggestions how I stop obsessing over the Juki? LOL

Since you asked for comments, here's mine:
First of all, it sounds like you're in the Charlotte area, and there are quite a few dealers throughout the Carolinas. Many of them will make "house calls".
I personally have an older Viking Mega Quilter (rebranded Tin Lizzie). It is a "stand-up" machine, with a 10" long wooden frame. I got it from an online dealer, and any issues I've had, I resolved with the help of other VMQ owners in the VMQ yahoo group. While I still have the boxes she came in (just in case I need to send her off), I have never had to ship her anywhere.

A couple of things to help you decide if you are going to go the "sit down" machine route - (1) you can't use the computer/robot system with a sit down machine and (2) if you are not at least a little bit proficient doing quilting on your DSM, you may not like the sit down.

One quilt shop owner told me this - people are either the sit down type or the stand up type. With the sit down type, you are moving the quilt. With the stand up type, you are moving the machine. You need to figure out which one is the more natural movement for you. Evidently, our brains work a little bit differently between the two different types.

If you love the Juki, but don't need the really big frame, see if they have a smaller frame. There are often some "demonstrator" size frames on the market, that will probably do up to a twin-size quilt. Since you said you don't do large quilts, this might be one option for you, and the smaller frame will reduce your cost somewhat.

There is also a Juki 2200 sit-down machine on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/2522737...chn=ps&lpid=82


Good luck in your quest!!

The only thing is that with sit down machine, you can't do pantographs and it doesn't do anything but FMQ. I have quilted my whole life on my older Bernina with less than a 7" throat so if you do just small quilts, why spend more money?? My friend bought one and she wishes that she had done a little more research and gotten the next model up. Good Luck in making your decision.

I agree that the crucial question is whether you prefer moving the needle over the quilt or moving the quilt under the needle. People get beautiful results both ways, so I think you will FMQ better with the method that is most intuitive for you. You enjoyed using the long arm, so it sounds like you might be the stand up type.

Sorry, your title reminds me of my old high school football cheer (reworded a bit):
Mid arm, long arm, how's it built?
stand up, sit down, quilt, quilt, quilt! :p
But seriously, I did find the FMQ movement on my domestic machine much more difficult than using a longarm. For me it was much more natural to move the pencil rather than the paper. It sounds like the opposite may be true for you. Another thing you may think about trying is to see if there is a place near you that rents time on a long arm. This may help you cross that off your list.

I agree with joesmom....sitting and moving the fabric is so much easier on my brain than moving a Longarm would be..but that may be because I FMQ'd on my domestic for quite a few years before getting sitdown HQ16 Sweet Sixteen. I've had it more than 4 years and still love it.

No I can't do pantos... but there are so many more things I can do like ruler work that just didn't work on a domestic. And I love having the throat space and table space. I suppose I could have tried to get a table to drop my Elna into, but then that would have worn out my Elna. So I also get a much longer life out of my domestic (that is close to 15 yrs old).

So I don't regret getting a sitdown. However, if you have back or shoulder issues, a sitdown might not be for you.

eta : there used to be a dealer in Taylorsville. He closed his quilt shop though. That's where I got mine (I am on the SE side of Charlotte) I've not had any issues at all with mine needing any service, etc.

If you fell in love with standing up to quilt on a frame, then likely that's the type of quilting you will enjoy forever. I never "loved" quilting on my domestic machine but, the first time I used a frame machine at a quilt show I was "in love".

Personally, I wouldn't go with a Juki. If you do a search on the QB here you will find a few threads about it. Juki is too new on the frame quilting scene for me. Plus I heard their foot design is a problem for ruler quilting.

You don't have to invest $9,000 to start frame quilting. I bought my Voyager 17/Hinterberg frame setup used from a quilt guild member for $3,000. Someone else on the QB bought my setup with a stitch regulator for $2,500. What you do need, though, for frame quilting is space. If you don't have enough space for the frame width required for the largest quilts you like to make, you have a problem.

If you have a local quilt guild, join there and you may find someone who wants to upgrade from an entry level setup to a better quality (more expensive) setup. That's how I got mine, and the seller even volunteered to spend a day or two at my house helping me get used to it. I had done so much research online and on Youtube, I really didn't need her help. Her husband and mine put the frame together for me, and my husband has since helped me install a used stitch regulator and done other minor adjustments on the machine for me. Not everyone needs a dealer close by for help, although if I didn't have my husband to help that might be a deciding factor for me.

Some people simply prefer quilting on a sitdown to frame quilting. Certainly if you cannot stand for a couple of hours at a time, sitdown is probably a much better bet for you.

Please do not get fixated on the Juki so early in your search. A quilting machine is a big investment, and you want to make the best choice when you purchase. Some quilters who have jumped in too early have regretted it and ended up selling their first choice and buying something else. The rule-of-thumb for purchasing a quilting machine is to spend at least a year fully researching options and costs before making a decision. That's what I did. The Voyager is not my "dream" machine, but it is a great machine for the budget I set. If I ever come into a lot of money, I will invest in an Innova with lightning stitch but, in the meantime, I'm happy with my Voyager.

Oh, I thought the title was a workout manuever! ;)

sandy

I really like my sit down. It has 20 wonderful inches of space and I love to go fast. However...it doesn't solve my sandwiching woes (don't like sandwiching at all!). It does stress out my shoulders somewhat, but I really really like FMQ in general so overall I'm happy. Standing at a machine for hours doesn't interest me so that's how I decided.

I don't have space for a long-arm so the HQ Sweet 16 was my answer.

While I already commented, I had to say that I agree with Prism99 - don't get fixated on the Juki just because you're a little hesitant to drive a little distance.
I spent 4 years (yes, FOUR YEARS!!) test driving several different machines - and I have to say that the Voyager that Prism99 has was also at the top of my list. You say that you worry about investing $9000 in a machine, but you're not crazy about driving around to try the different ones.

Take the time to drive.

You won't be sorry in the long run.

I went to the big AQS show when it came to Nashville, and while I of course spent some time looking at all the beautiful quilts, I spent most of the 4 days test-driving ALL 13 different brands of machines. And I tried them all at least 3-4 times, if not more.
And my favorites? Surprisingly enough, the Voyager and the Tin Lizzie. And the price was not the only deciding factor.

You need to think of it this way - you wouldn't buy just the first car you saw - you would go to several different dealerships and try other makes and models, until you found the one that was "just right". This investment should not be any less important.

OK, off my soapbox now.
Again, good luck!!

I am not the OP and it will be a few years at least before I can purchase a quilting machine. But I appreciate all the replies so far.

I am heading to Puyallup and plan to test out as many long arm set ups as I can while there.

I am in the interesting position of knowing I will be moving this summer and when shopping for a new house, I will be considering which ones have room enough inside or a workshop that can be my quilting studio. So as well as testing out the various machines, I will be getting the measurements of how much space is needed to properly accommodate the various machines.

Lots of good comments on the difference between the "sit down" and long arms/frames. I have a Gammill bought used and while I was doing some twin size quilts on my DSM and loved FMQ, have to say that the strain on my shoulders and the difficulty getting a quilt sandwiched (especially when you can't get on your knees!) really sent me in the direction of a long arm. Fortunately, I have space for one in my basement. I love FMQ and using rulers on my long arm and the process sures seems much more intuitive than moving the fabric.

One concern I hear others says is that they can't stand to long arm. I use a drafting stool (I hate pantos so not doing them often is a blessing)while I work with rulers and most FMQ--I stand to do my basting and if quilting a long line across a quilt. So needing to sit is possible.

One other concern is distance to a dealer for technique support and service. It is darn near impossible to take your long arm in for service, but I've found excellent service via the phone and the dealership does send techs periodically. And frankly, my friend that sells sit downs talks about how heavy they are and makes it sound like you don't just drag them in for servicing either--so that seems like a "wash" to me.

I knew you quilters could talk me out of the mental frenzy I was experiencing. My post title came from frustration but I'm glad some of you thought it humorous. Ha.

Clearly, I need to get off the computer and on the road to physically try a variety of machines. LOL. My DSM has about a 9" harp but I manage to FMQ. I think when I tried the Juki and it moved so easily, I was smitten. In all fairness, I need to try a sit-down machine ... could be with the extra space to move the quilt, I might be quite happy.

Re: service, I have read that many of you are able to work out any problems by phone. I may have to get over not having a dealer nearby. Sorta like taking off the training wheels and learning to ride a bike by yourself - Ha.

So, now my goal is to attend 2 nearby shows coming up (1 in a couple weeks, the other in mid March). Then, if necessary, contact dealers up to a couple hours away and arrange to look at some machines I haven't tried. Contacting local guilds (for a used machine) is also a great idea I had not thought of.

So I'm going to get back to quilting in the mean time and work on visiting places about every 2 weeks to tryout machines. Karyl on this board has recommended a dealer she is very happy with so I may have to make that 2.5 hour drive and try the HQ.

Thank you all so much.

Sharon

I'm just about where you are Sharon... still in the test drive mode. However, I have only had experience on stand up LA machines (APQS and HandiQuilter) at classes I have taken. I don't have the room (yet) for a big machine but know that I am more of a standing FMQ than a sitting one. There are so many things to take into consideration but I think service is top on the list.

I am definitely wired for stand up frame quilting. I found sit down FMQ awkward and no matter how much I tried to relax while doing it I constantly found myself all tensed up, especially around the shoulders and neck. Additionally I hated sandwiching with a white hot passion! I was not opposed to "quilting by check" and did send a larger quilt off to be quilted back when Green Fairy was still starting out and a member of this board. I was elated with the result and I could get a LOT of quilts professionally custom longarmed for the price of a setup. But I signed up to take a longarm class so I could rent and that was all she wrote. In that short time I realized I REALLY loved frame quilting, just as much, if not more than I loved piecing quilts. It came very naturally to me and I was definitely hooked. So then I made a list of pros and cons about purchasing a setup and started saving like a demon. While my love of it played heavily into my decision (of course! why would we spend that kind of money on something we didn't completely and utterly covet?!) I also tried to evaluate the decision based on the advantages and disadvantages. The advantage list was much longer. I was fortunate that I met my longarm "soulmate" early on in my search, an Innova. A little more then a year after deciding I bought one of my dealer's demo models. The rest, as we shall say, is history. :)

I enjoy using pantograph designs on my quilts. I started using them on my Janome 6600P sewing machine. Then did them on my Horizon 7700 machine. Now I do them on my Artistic sit down. I should mention I am in my late 70s and too old to learn more advanced FMQing.

I discovered that I could purchase the pantograph designs in digital form. I then use Photoshop to enlarge them to the size I need. Print them off and make a master copy on Golden Thread paper. I have
completed a number of quilts using this method: table runners up to queen size sheets. More work than FMQing but I enjoy finishing my quilts this way. I am presently working on a quilt 90 x 85. I will try to attach a small quilt I finished recently.

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Not sure why the picture is so small.

I loved that particular Juki too, it moves heavenly, not like my clunky Avante. I think you can get a long arm with a smaller table, can't you? Good luck, I just wish I had done more research and trying machines out before buying.

I have done similar with my sit-down Tiara. Where there is a will, there is a way! I am getting better with my FMQing and love the next level of creativity it has taken me. My sewing room is small, so no room for a frame arrangement. We have a full basement, but it is my DH's woodworking cave, plus don't want to be down there hours on end, even if we would partition off an area for me. I need LIGHT and a view! I love the arrangement I have which works for me. My knees would never be able to stand for hours to quilt. I just rearranged my sewing room with a new vinyl plank floor installation and had my DH add hooks in the ceiling, with bungie cords and clamps to help lift the excess weight of the quilts off the sit-down table. Will let you know how it works in a future post.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]542581[/ATTACH]
Good luck with your research. Everyone has their own skill set and you will find out what works better for you.

Best part of a frame quilt system..NO BASTING. I hated that step. I am very prolific. I could make the frame smaller as it just sits on 2 tables but I have enough room to have it full size. It is in an alcove in the living room. Our house is 1,000 sq feet. We are renters and I had to make sure there was room enough for it. It is that important to me.

I chose a Handiquilter 16 bought via Craigslist. I do free motion quilting from the front. I am mainly a charity quilter so those people have no idea not care if I cross over a line. I do not like pantos as they are slow and I do not like being behind the machine.

My dream machine is the Avante made by Handiquilter.

I just bought a mid arm Tiara III and LOVE,LOVE it. I did not have room, nor did I want a large long arm machine. This mid arm is such a breeze to operate with no hassle at all!!. It can handle any quilt I have and I like the body at the back of the machine too.(as opposed to the side) Tried the Sweet 16 and Innova but this one is quiter and not jumpy like some others. EASY to thread and just the best thing ever for my quilting needs. Plus the price is so much better than others. I got a deal and It was $5,000. Good luck to you! p.s. Show prices are not always the best they wanted $6,900 at the Ontario Quilt show for my Tiara III.

why not make an adventure of going to the dealer. Take a friend or two and plan on going to lunch, or if it is big town, maybe a show after visiting the dealer. This way you make a whole day of it with friends. Even if you decide you didn't care for the machine, the day would have been fun with your friends (or hubby).

Fastpedal, that is a beautiful quilt. Fallonquilter, I just tried a Tiara today.

So today I tried a BL Tiara (either 17" or 20", forgot to write that down) sit-down with and w/o the SR. Nice machine, nice stitch quality, was not crazy about the SR (goes under the quilt) $5,500. Then I tried a Bernina sit-down w/built-in SR (24" I think). Wow! Great machine but very pricey $10,500. Loved the BSR.

After trying 2 sit-down mid-arms, I went back to my dealer to try the Juki 2200QVP long arm. I was shocked that it didn't feel as easy to move as I remembered! Then I tried the Brother Innov-is 2400 mounted on the new Dreamweaver frame. Hmmm ... again, wasn't as easy to quilt with as I expected. Both had SR's so I liked the stitch quality.

So I think I have discovered I must be a "move the paper" person. I'm a little surprised by that. Maybe because I'm used to moving the quilt on my DSM. And I've discovered that a SR that sits "under" the quilt doesn't seem to regulate stitch length as well as one built into the machine.

So my search is going the way of a sit-down mid-arm I guess. Ha! Now back to the computer to see what else Bernina has to offer with large harp/throat space. Thanks everyone for pushing me out the door to try machines.

Just because you have a stand up quilting machine does not mean you have to stand there for hours quilting! I have a stand up and can only quilt for about 2 hours at a time because of pain. A sit down would drive me nuts. Just saying you don't have to spend hours standing up to quilt. Give that a thought too.

If you have a Juki dealer that close, why not try out Juki's sit-down machine there? I tried one in Houston and liked
it, although I wanted it for thread painting. I have a longarm (Innova) that I love and ended up buying a used sit-
down one from a friend, but if that hadn't come along I would have gotten the Juki.

Paper princess, you hit the nail on the head with it's the difference between moving the pen or the paper. Thanks, I've been trying to tell DH about the difference and he has had a hard time thinking of a long arm. Perfect description.

I have an older mid arm machine (Pfaff Grand Quilter) on a 10 foot frame. I wanted to use it for pantographs and large designs, but I quickly realized that I was severely limited by the lack of throat space. The finished part of the quilt rolls up into the throat area leaving only a small area for you to work. It sews beautifully as a freestanding machine off of the frame. I plan to set it up on a table and to use it for freemotion and walking foot quilting. This machine has feed dogs, unlike some of the newer table models. You need to decide what your goals are and your budget. I jumped into my decision too quickly and did not get what I had dreamt of.

still giggling about the cheer
However I seriously 'second' your advice

the sweet 16 can be purchased with an adjustable height table...sooooo you can quilt standing rather than sitting ......unless you are, like, 6 feet tall.

I don't have an SR on my HQ sitdown and haven't missed it. I do think it does take some practice but if you are used to a domestic the learning curve is so small. I too have a brain block to a long arm. I think a lot of it is what you have trained your brain to do. If you have only pieced on a domestic then FMQ might be easier on a long arm, but if you FMQ on a domestic (moving the paper) then moving to a sitdown has very little change.

My dealer was amazed at the fact that I sat down at the HQ S16 and just started FMQ -- he left me to my devices to play with it pretty quickly and I walked out the door with it.

As others have said, we tend to come in "stand up" or "sit down" variety (some are either). Due to health limitations I went from stand up to sit down (don't all of us sit down for piecing anyway?). My HQ Sweet 16 was purchased used online from someone who posted on SewItsForSale. I paid $3800 for machine, table, two extensions, and a boat load of extras. The seller was "upgrading". I highly recommend going the second-hand route there are so many who jumped in without doing their research and want to make a change as a result. Here is another option. Make your choice and go to SewItsForSale to post an ISO (in search of) and see what happens.

From what I am hearing from many of you, I think I need to watch my Leah Day FMQ course again and practice some everyday. I was doing this until "life" got in the way. As much as I love a machine with a "built in" SR, a mid-arm with that feature isn't in the budget right now.

I do want to try a HQ Sweet 16. The nearest dealer is a 2.5 hour drive so I'll have to set this up hopefully in the next week or 2.

"Kaylfrdsollimo", I have been looking at sites for used machines but haven't found one for sale in N.C. I would not want to buy one used unless I could try it out first. Did you try the H 16's SR? The Babylock SR is similar but my stitches were not consistent with it. My stitches were small if I happened to slow down some ... with the built-in SR that didn't happen.

If you liked the Juki on the frame, and you have a dealer near you ... here's good news .. Juki makes that same machine as a sit down model (although it does not have a stitch regulator). The price of the sit down model is around $5500.00.

But yes ... check out various sit down machines first.

I had tried several long arms, fell in love with the Innova, but the only place I had room for it was at my husbands shop about 10 miles away. So I purchased a good used Voyager 8" on a Hinterberg frame for a very reasonable price - mostly to see if I would like quilting an entire quilt on a frame, and how often would I actually get there to use it. As it turns out, I didn't get there often enough and at the same time I was FMQ small projects at home on my domestic and got so used to it that I decided to get a sit down machine and bought the Juki. Love it!!

But now, as luck would have it ... we are contemplating moving and the sewing room in the house we are thinking of buying is 16' X 24' and I will have room for both my long arm and my sit down machine!! IF we buy that house ...

DogHouseMom ... I did ask my dealer about the Juki 2200 sit down. They have it in another location about an hour a way so I may very well make the trip to try that out. I have a Juki F600 that I love. I manage to FMQ with the 9" space but obviously more throat/harp space is always a plus. Wonder if the SR is built into the frame? I think they told me on the new Brother package I looked at the SR only worked w/the new Dreamweaver Frame. Hmm.

Hope you buy the house. I thought we were going to buy one with a full finished basement last fall. I think that's when I got excited about the long arm option. But we didn't. Darn, and I had already designed my sewing area in my mind. Ha. Good Luck.

Sharon

I know I am biased. I bought a gently used HQ 16 [not the sitdown model.] I added the ProStitcher when it first came out. I still love it!
HQ has excellent tech service via phone. I have even forwarded a text pictures to the tech with the results being great. A picture is really worth a 1000words.

Right now many quilters are trading up and there are some great deals on used HQ's.

Many of you have mentioned that you purchased used machines ... some from Craig's List and other websites listing used machines for sale. So did you buy your used machine w/o trying it out/sight unseen? Or did you find one nearby so you could try it first?

Haven't been able to hit the road again to try more machines but I am practicing my FMQ almost every day.

I bought mine used from a fellow quilt guild member who was upgrading. She had put a stack of flyers on the entrance table at the quilt guild meeting. We arranged for me to come over to her house and try out the machine before I purchased it. Unless you are buying long-distance, it's usually possible to try out a setup before committing to it.

I knew I wanted an HQ16. I would look for a place no more than 3 hours away one way. It took me quite sometime but it did eventually happen. I had to wait to find someone whould would accept my limited budget.

I found a great deal for a friend and she did not try it out. I think they did stuff through Skype but cannot remember. They met half way---one lived in MD and the seller in Ohio. All worked out just fine.