Yipee! It has gone to court!

Unfortunately, the fighting paints a broad brush over all pattern designers. It's really only a few pattern designers with their knickers in a wad. Don't give up on pattern designers, even those with the problem restrictions. Those few will begin to see the light eventually... and get the ironing board out to iron the wrinkles in their knickers. We should learn to forgive and pay it forward! Who knows, I may be the person who needs the ironing board the next time. LOL

@ JMCDA and Lori S: thanks for the feedback! Also, I have to say 'thanks!' to everyone else commenting on this thread; I appreciate reading everyone's feedback, because it definitely helps me to wade through this whole copyright issue :thumbup:

To JMCDA.....

I recognize you are an award winning published artist. Congratulations! (with an ego running amok, but that's my opinion.) You were right on the money with most of your copyright advice. But where you steered wrong was in your last 4 paragraphs. (shown after the snip, below)

You are bullying the person buying your pattern by telling them your copyright requires them to ask for permission to earn income off of something they made using your pattern. You are placing an illegal requirement on the buyer, and this is not allowed according to a law called the First Use Doctrine. The copyright does NOT extend to the item made using the copyrighted pattern.

Telling someone to get this permission in writing is like putting an agreement in writing between gang members and a local deli... "We'll let you sell sandwiches but you're going to pay us $300 weekly "insurance" to keep us from mugging your customers." How stupid are the local criminals to put this in writing???

PLEASE CONTACT ME if anyone reading this has an actual WRITTEN permission slip from a quilt pattern designer extending their copyright & giving you permission to sell the finished items you created using that designers pattern. It would be useful in a lawsuit to get these ego driven ladies to deflate their ego long enough to read ALL the laws that protect consumers, not just the ones that pertain to them.

I suppose if the book said "you may jump in a lake personally but you may not sell tickets to go jump in a lake" you would then go jump in a lake before using a pattern in the book?

The restriction you found in the book, is it trying to claim their 'copyright' restricts you from selling items the buyer made using their book? If so... the copyright restriction is hogwash and should be ignored.

I read this and the finished product of a purchased pattern is not restricted by copyright (why include a pattern and instructions unless you are enticing someone to make it). Only the pattern, or language cannot be copied. The finished product and what you do with the finished product is not something that is governed.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

Leah Day's website is faaaabulous. She is one smart lady. Thank you for sharing her link!

http://www.quiltingboard.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Chay http://www.quiltingboard.com/images/...post-right.png

Food for thought from Leah Day at the Free Motion Quilting Project entitled Copyright Terrorism:
http://freemotionquilting.blogspot.c...terrorism.html

This is my philosophy in life....

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Thanks katesnanna...was wondering how we Aussies stood on this issue. Don't think I'll ever make a profit from quilting...but didn't want to get in more trouble than Ned Kelly if I did make a few dollars:).

Coptright infringment is not a tricky matter, yes legal, but not complicated! If a person puts in writing you may not use their pattern for sale you can't. It's the same thing with manuscripts, the exact same! No type of reasoning will make anyone using a copyright for profit legal. Ask a lawyer if you have questions!

If you copied the pattern itself, it would be the same as a manuscript. Using the pattern to create a quilt and then profit from the quilt is a whole different matter. Copyright protects the words and images in the pattern document. It does not extend to physical items produced using the words and images.

I have contacted a number of designers, magazines and fabric places to ask re selling items made with their patterns. With one exception I have received approval (with the caveat 'as long as your not setting up a factory in China). After that and all the great information received here the conclusion I've reached is 'I'm no longer going to be overly concerned about getting permissions but will give credit to magazine and/or designer. if I ever get around to making something to sell. Usually mine never turn out exactly like the pattern anyway so if someone wants to get upset I can always apologize & try to make it right.

I hate to sound dumb here, but I'm gonna go ahead anyways.
I have read all 10 pages and am just as confused as I was during the first post. I look at tons of patterns and blocks on-line and in numerous books, to get inspiration. Then if I see something that speaks to me, I figure out, on my own, how to make it. Most of the time, I never look up a pattern or tute for it, I do the math and graphing myself. But what I am getting from all this is: if I do follow through and make the item based off the inspiration project/pic/block/ etc.., that if I sell that item, I have now infinged on someone's work because they made it to begin with?? Tell me this is not so!! What is the point of even preserving the quilting tradition, if not for inspiration and to keep quilting alive?
I used to visit a well-known site several hours at a sitting, several days a week. I happened to see a block on that site that I had spent days "creating" on my own, before seeing it on her site. I did some digging on her site and found her copyright statement regarding using patterns on her site so I emailed her to ask if I could use it in a quilt I was making to sell, since I had spent days drafting it myself. I was told no, unless you can prove, without a doubt, that it is truly your design you are making to sell and not copying mine. ???What???
Same type of thing with the Twister tool and quilts made from it. I read and followed a tute, on here, to make my own template but I only use 4" unfinished squares to start with and the "tool" I made is a 2 1/2" square. Imagine my surprise when I was told I can not sell these types of quilts either as I would be infringing on the Twister makers rights.
So, I have just decided to make what I want to make, the way I want to make them and do what I choose with them. If someone wants to sue me because I was inspired enough to do the "designing" part of the work myself and not from their published patterns/books, then go for it! If I could afford the price of "patterns" to begin with I wouldn't have to do all that work myself! But, if that were the case then the satisfaction I get out of making it work so it all fits nicely would be gone and there would be no point.

Just because a quilt pattern maker tries to limit use of their pattern to hobby quilters beyond a standard copyright clause doesn't make it legal. And just because some magazine or blog suggested that you write the pattern maker for permission to use the pattern to sell a quilt or that you are required to "credit" the designer in writing doesn't mean you are legally bound to do so. When you buy a pattern from a designer, you haven't entered into a contract with them, you are only bound by laws and regulations.

This whole issue makes me so mad. When someone makes the decision to profit from their designs by selling patterns they cannot control what the consumer does with the pattern, beyond prohibiting selling copies of the pattern itself or using it for mass production. They have given up exclusivity, it is no longer a one-of-a-kind design.

I'm with those who have started reading the fine print. Even though I don't sew for profit, I will no longer buy any products from designers that attempt to limit usage beyond copyright or trademark license.

P.S. I'm not a copyright or patent lawyer, so this is my opinion.

OK, to summarize, a bit late perhaps:

1. A quilt pattern is NOT a registered trademark, brand name product or patented item and the laws concerning trademarks, brand names or patented inventions do not apply.

2. Copyright means that an individual is forbidden to reproduce the words and images that constitute the contents of the pattern, without express permission of the copyright holder. The copyright holder has no authority over the product that is the result of the buyer's execution of the pattern-maker's instructions.

3. Additional remarks by copyright holders limiting the use buyers may make of the finished results of the buyers' labors are abusive and have no legal standing.

4. It is polite and intellectually honest to quote the name or source of the pattern creator when known.

5. Actually making a quilt following someone's instructions is not plagiarism or stealing. The pattern-maker received the benefit of their work when they received monetary compensation as a result of selling their pattern.

6. If you don't want someone to apply your technique for their own intellectual or material benefit, don't teach it to them. An actual technique cannot be copyrighted in its own right; only the words and images used to convey the technique can be copyrighted.

I'm a bit late in the discussion, but this whole topic has been driving me crazy for weeks. The references to actual case law, government legislation websites and differences in national poliiey are enlightening and should dispel all the confusion, rumours and fear that seems to be surrounding this issue.

Interesting - discussion. I have seen the same pattern or almost the same with different names. So not sure how that works. I can see both sides -. Sounds like tradition patterns are the way to go to sell quilts.

After reading this and reading the copyright laws, it is clear that the PATTERN is copyrighted, not items made using the pattern.

A good indicator of the above is the fact that quilt shops (several of which I visited during a trip to Ohio last month) make items using the patterns they sell, and then sell those made items in their shop. I think this clears up the confusion as to what is protected by a "copyright."