It is so discouraging to see what has happened to my beloved Pfaff's. The Germans that took such skill, love, care & pride in creating these wonderful machines must be absolutely horrified.

Ladies --- JoAnn Fabrics does not sell Viking sewing machines -- they do sell Singers but just in a box on a shelf. If you see Vikings in a JoAnns, they are being sold by a "leased department" that is totally separate from JoAnns. I have worked in both types of these - a Viking leased department in JoAnns and for JoAnns as well for the last 20 years.

Had the same trouble with local Bernina dealer. They wanted the shop to get rid of mat'l and deal only with machines. Nearest dealer is now about 30 miles away.

Viking top of the line and other models were good machines in time past.I cannot say as of today. Pfaffs were good machines and may still be, but getting repairs on either is a night mare, especially the Pfaffs as something happened to the dealers when the SVP/VSP/VPS got control of the machines and V & P dealerships were removed. I think that any machine company whether it be V/S/P/B or Babylock & Brother should honor the purchase of parts by repairmen who are not dealer connected to repair the sewing machines (top of the line or what not) purchased as a lot of dealers are out of business or have lost (or given up) their dealership and the consumer is the one who has lost because there is no dealership within hundreds of miles to repair. I speak from experience. Also, on the electronic machines when the dealer decides to discontinue a model or make a new model the maker of the machine should be required to be able to furnish the electronic part that is the brain and without the brain you do not have a machine that works. Sure you have a warranty but when the model is discontinued the maker company says "sorry, the brain is no longer available." Sorry that this is so long but getting repairs on the top of the line top of the brand name machines can be long, exhausting and expensive and I think this is true on all brands, just hope mine (I have one of each brand) does not have more problems. missbelle

I can see that, for once anyway, it is good to be living in Norway. My Husqvarna Viking was made in Sweden and my dealer has a repairman that comes to the store every Monday to work on machines. They sell primarily this brand but have other brands one can purchase as used models.

Most people in my quilting group have Janomes. I don't like them as much as my little Swedish baby. I have the Sapphire 870 quilt and the area for bunching the quilt roll is probably one of the largest in the industry.

German engineering is going the way of most European countries because the cost of labor is so high the products simply cannot compete with the Chinese (junk :oops:)

Okay, now I REALLY don't know what to do! I have a Pfaff 7570 which I purchased in the '70s. Though I can embroider with it, I have been toying with the idea to buy a Creative 4.0, making the embroidering much easier, and still use it for quilting, regular sewing, etc. Should I throw that idea out the window? A friend says her Viking embroiders well. Bernina dealer is 90 minutes away. Ohhhhh what to do? Any words of wisdom?

I also asked about the Viking section in Joanne and was told that Viking leases (or owns) the section in the Joanne store.[/quote]

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I don't really care if Viking leases a space or not in Joanne's. I would never take mastery classes or learn anything at ours. Maybe others' Joannes are set up differently, but we have a new store and the Viking section is right in the middle of the store and has no privacy, whatsoever. People float through there constantly and it's loud. No thanks. I like taking classes in a quiet, private dealership where the teacher is a teacher only and not having to teach me and sell a sewing machine at the same time;>

My machine is a Bernina and the dealership where I bought it is now no longer a dealership. Don't know why. Fortunately (or not), another lqs picked up the warranty. Problem is, when I brought an issue in for repair, there were some "customer service" problems, and in the end I was told they were only covering my warranty "out of the goodness of their hearts!"

I'll take warranty issues there, but anything else I need, I'll go some place else. Kind of shot themselves in the foot, didn't they?

All my new machines are Babylock. My dealer sells Phaff also but recently they have started selling Brother again. They did this many years ago. I wonder what is up with that.I am going to ask if they are going to quit selling Phaff. I know a lot of ladies that will be mad. Also my mother told me never to buy Singer as it was all plastic parts.

I have a Pfaff 2124 I got almost 5 years ago. It had stitch issues last winter. I took it into Spokane to the repair shop, and then had to wait several months while the motherboard was ordered and it took forever for that part to come in. Wonder if they had to order from China???? Repair cost over $325. That is a lot of fabric I couldn't buy. That is sad to hear about these machines now being made elsewhere. I guess where the labor is the cheapest and generally that means quality goes right out the window.

Have you tested out the Creative 4? Do you like it? Have you googled or searched here for a review and feedback?

Not sure why it is thought that Vikings are made in China , when they are manufactured in Sweden. Go to the web site it is the first statment made "developed and manufctured in Sweden".
Viking has owned Pfaff for about 10 years.

Because Viking closed most of their manufacturing plants and their lower lines of sewing machines aren't made in Sweden anymore.

when I bought my first computer S.M, I purposely bought Kenmore because I could get in/home/service for a good rate/ayear...Sears discontinued that very suddenly so my next machine was not a kenmore LOL...we do have 2 juki dealerships within a 35mile radius

Maybe this is why my Viking Dealer recently dropped Bernina and added Baby Lock. They said weren't selling enough Bernina's. I now notice the Baby Lock are up front and the Viking are in the back. This is a dealer who always raved about Viking. I have a Baby Lock Quilters Pro, but Viking is still my favorite.

Does anyone else have a dealership in their area, in this group of 28, that were dropped by Viking and Pfaff?

None of us can feel complacent ,regardless of the brand sewing machine we own.I had a Viking that I liked,but the dealer went out of business less than 3 mos after selling the V to me. No classes & a bare minimum manual.Trying to find a dealer to honor the warranty was useless.
A friend loved it & offered me a good price. Not what it was worth, but without a warranty, was lucky to sell it.

With all machines being made in Asia,from computers to TVs,to sewing equip.......we just have to deal with it as best we can.For anyone with a great dealer (I have one) they're worth their wt in gold :-)

Viking has disappeared from my local JoAnn's and they now carry Singer exclusively.

I was told the last time I went into my local sewing machine repair shop that he quit selling Janome machines. The reason:
they quit making the top end machine and opted to make only the ones that they sell in discount and dept stores. He feels very strong about selling only quality products, so, he switched to Juki.

So, there goes the good rep that Janome has had over the past decade, too. I own several, but based on his input, wont buy another one.

The dealer where I bought mine was dropped. He now sells Singer and Janome.

Not sure if it's words of wisdom, but that has never stopped me before. lol

I used to be a Pfaff girl - all the way. Not that mine were TOL but they were not the cheapies either. When my older one had trouble with the bobbin case, I said to the sales gal "oh just for fun, show me what you got." Ended up with the 2056/58??? which lifts its little foot. This was late last fall. When I got her home, we found out that we were not compatible. She is not a bad machine, but she is not the machine for me. I noticed a difference in handling (compared to my other machine) and she has some quirks that irritate me.

I spoke with others who have the same machine, and IF the person "upgraded" from another Pfaff, they all said the same thing. IF they were new to Pfaff, they did not notice.

As Candace pointed out, many machines are outsourced, so the argument that we "only" use American or we "only" buy European machines holds no water. There are some really great machines made in China, Taiwan, or where-ever that are high quality and make our quilter hearts soar.

For you, my dear - I would suggest that you test drive the heck out of the 4.0 and see if you like her. I read in a review that their first release of the Expression had an annoying bump where the table met the machine and that it was impossible to get things sewn straight. (One of the reasons I shied away from it at the time) But I have seen quilters use that machine in classes and it seems that problem is fixed. They also LOVE their Expression 4.0.

Me, I decided on a Babylock Espire - the reason is kind of silly: The darn machine sews sideways and at an angle. THAT was IT for me. "You had me at Hello!" lol

I think you nailed it. Buy what makes your heart soar. Just do your due diligence in making sure you know where it's made and you're comfortable with it. A good dealer IS worth their weight in gold!

I own a Pfaff and Bernina. My local Pfaff dealer discouraged me from buying the new Pfaff because the quality of the machine has gone down so much because of the merger with Singer. Also, he siad it's very difficult to get the parts. He had been on hold with Pfaff for 45 min just trying to order a part. He said this is common practice now with Pfaff. He was very discouraged. Now, about the Bernina. When I was in the Bernina store, the repairman man told me that certain models of Bernina will now be made in China. He said the 440 series would now be made in China. He said if I was interested in that model, he still had 3 that were made in in Switzerland. Also, some of the new less expensive models are made in China.

I think it is very much like buying a car when we select our machines. For me, Bernina was never an option (no matter where they are made) because Bernina and I don't get along. Not sure why either. They are beautiful machines and when I drive one, it is a disaster in the making. Just like the Janomes, Berninas feel "rough" to me - like driving a tractor (which I actually have never done. lol) Yet, I know people who would not trade their Berninas or their Janomes for all the tea in China.

I still use my 7570 all the time. The embroidery capabilities are all I need. I am still using the vintage german 230 which is an old mechanical. I love them both. I never upgraded as the 7570 was the last hurrah of the germans making Pfaff's and they put their hearts and souls into that machine. I also have a Juki TL98Q, 3 treadles and various other antique/vintage machines.

At the start of the changeover when Pfaff sold out there was nothing but problems with machines and it made me more grateful for what I had. We were in Germany at the time and news went around fast. It just was so hard to know the quality would never be there again. Course all lovers of specific brand machines feel the same way.

Madquilter & Candace you are both so right in your thinking and we must as Candace so aptly put... use what makes your heart soar regardless of who made it, what brand it is and how much it cost.

I found this on the net: "The Bernina 220 is made in China in a Bernina factory. Which means it is a factory built by and owned by Bernina. The 220 features the same quality Bernina is famous for.
The Bernina Activa 220 is NOT built in China. It is manufactured in a Bernina-built factory in Thailand, opened by Hans-Peter Ueltschi personally. Unlike Singer, Viking, and so many others, these machines have strict quality control and strive to equal the full-size Swiss-made machines."


To me this just shows it's all about wording...people can spin things all around to get the desired effect. It seems Bernina is following along with the outsourcing practice. Practically everything we own or buy now is not made in the US. I'm so glad I won't be needing a new machine for a looooong time if ever. I was very happy with my Japanese built Janome and I'm thrilled with my Swiss made Bernina. I'm a multi-cultural sewing machine household:>

I feel the same way about Bernina & Janome. They just aren't smooth for me. I have a Pfaff that I use for quilting. Love the IDT for quilting, but for all my other sewing I love my Viking. So I take it you love for Pfaff.

I actually pulled out my old Pfaff to put together a top that included folded origami pieces. The built-in walking foot was the better choice for the lumpy project. For me, it is nice to have options and I count my blessing that I have different machines to select from. Which leads me to the actual point (good grief am I long-winded today) Not everyone can afford multiple options and many sewers want that one good machine. We have had the discussion MANY times on the QB - there is no ONE SIZE FITS ALL machine. Everyone needs to identify WHAT their needs are and then research. That's why there are so many brands out there - to meet the needs and wishes of the consumer. If Pfaff quality keeps declining (and I'm not saying it will) then the consumers will speak with their pocket books.

I just did the research and SVP which is a global Investment Co. bought the rights to Singer, Viking and Pfaff's. They are all being made in China. They are "in talks with Bernina,Elna/White and others?. The theory being the same machinery can make all machines at a lower cost. The computers are all basically the same just different programming. Slap them into different cases with different names on them and woman will buy them. Janome has refused due to their being made in Japan and their quality controls are extremely tight. Some of their cases are made "off island" but nothing that is important. The idea is to get away from having to pay dealerships for advertising, training etc. In otherwords, greed, they want to make more money with less intervention. Sell it off the shelf, they make more money. When you can't get it fixed, you will buy new. Doing demo's with machines that you can try out, cost them profit $'s. So, no more commissioned dealerships.

'member suffragettes? Maybe it's time for Sewfragettes!

I had been thinking about looking at the Pfaff's and Bernina's as an "upgrade" to my Brother's but I think I'll keep what I have since I've never had any problems with them. BTW...did you know that the same manufacturer makes Babylock and Brother?

Actually, Babylock is made in the Brother factory to Babylock specifications. That is not the same as *made by Brother*.

I recently bought a Babylock Espire (love her!!!!!) and it was explained to me that Brother is the lower end manufacture line and Babylock has the higher end standards. Great warranty on Babylock.

I'm so jealous! You have the Espire. That is my dream machine and hopefully I'll be able to get the new Symphony in a year or so. I'm a die hard Babylock gal. I own 5 BL machines. My sewing is done on a Pfaff 7570. Great machine but will never buy another Pfaff because the quality just isn't like it was. Babylock really stands behind their products.

Brother and Babylock have no affiliation except that Babylock hires them to manufacture their machines, to their spec's. Babylock does not own a factory so they hire Brother. For what it is worth, Babylock is owned by Tacony, an American company.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you. I just had a class with Quilla yesterday. She got to try on her quilting shoes. Too bad she is cursed with an owner who has little quilting style (as of yet). There is hope. lol

Same thing happened to A couple of Bernina dealers in the Orlando area. Said they were too close together. I switched to Janomes.

Where in S Florida do you live? Jupiter Quilt shop is still a Bernina dealership and Bunnell quilt shop. Quilt Scene in Miami is still a Bernina sealership.

Reading this with interest and somehow it went off course from the original question but for us older people the same conversation was going on only it was about products made Japan. Remember all those products of lower quality and cost? They were made in Japan and people bought it because it was cheap. Now it is China. If you want a 100 dollar sewing machine that is what you get, a Chinese manufactured sewing machine. The world of consumerism is based on the masses, that is where the money is. For the record there are some very high quality products made in China. Our home is very diverse on sewing machines. We have a Bernina730e made in Switzerland, A Bernina B330 made in Thailand (very, very solid machine by the way), a Juki 98Q made in Japan (extremely well made) and a Brother CE4000 that just cost 80 dollars but still a really good machine. There you have it, the cheapest is made in China. As for service we have the best Bernina dealer within an hours drive, there is a great Juki dealer that is also an hours drive. The Brother, well since it cost 80 bucks I guess you just fill up the landfill.
Thank you for letting me give my opinion.

My Viking is made by Husquvarna and was made in Sweden it's from the 90's I was thinking of geting a new one. Husquvarna has a repair place I think in Ohio. When my mother -in-law past away I got hers and gave my singer to one of the daughters guess I should have kept my singer