Used long arm price help needed
 

Hello! I am going to look at a 2015 Innova today and would like some help with determining a good price offer. It’s asking price is $15000 but is negotiable. It is a 22” with lightening stitch and table is 9’. The table length is perfect for my needs, since I don’t do large quilts nor have the room for a table much longer. It has the micro handles, too, as well as extra feet and bobbins. It is private party and I’m fairly sure at that age there is no warranty left. Owner says it has been lightly used. It has been for sale since April this year.

A dealer has also offered me a price on a one year old machine for the same price but with 4 more years of warranty. Plus I would have to pay the tax and delivery, probably adding another $2000 to the price. Plus micro handles would be extra. I’m not too concerned with getting them at this time though. Five training classes are also included.

Just from looking at other pricing online, the 2015 Innova seems rather over priced. Any suggestions for price offers would be greatly appreciated. I’m not in a huge hurry and I’ll be going to Houston quilt festival this fall and taking classes so I can wait if others think I might get a good deal at the show.

Thanks for any help!

You could check the used prices at Accomplished Quilting online. I think the $15,000 sounds like a pretty fair price with lightning stitch. I would not consider 2015 very old. The machines really don't change much from year to year. Maybe offer less and see what happens.

First go see the machine, try it out, how does it feel?

Try to find out what she paid for the machine, you can ask to see the initial invoice or do research to find the answer. How does this compare to what she is asking. You are just looking at the base machine at this point. Keep in mind the original purchase probably included set up and delivery. When buying second had, generally the buyer is responsible for this.

Remember a car depreciates by 25-30% the moment it leaves the lot. Then it continues to depreciate.

I have no idea on the pricing for Innovas, so my comments are entirely based in general on buying used items and how I do it.

I would offer $11,250 or 75% of her asking price all in. This would include all the accessories she listed. You can work your way up from there.

The extras may be worth a couple hundred dollars, or more, but without the machine are not really worth anything. It can be a challenge to sell off individual accessories, that are machine specific.

Now having said that the machine has been for sale for 4 months. It could be that either she is not willing to budge on price, or is getting fed up and wants it gone.

There is a Facebook group for selling LA's that you may want to check out, it will give you an idea of prices. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Longarms4sale/

I agree, that price seems high to me. I just configured that set up (only with a 10' rack) with L/S and microhandles and brand new it came out to a $16,319.00. I didn't include any of the extra feet, those usually run around $40 or $50 depending on the foot type. If you can get her to knock a couple thousand off that would be an awesome deal.

I love my Innova. I got mine in 2010 and it was a dealer demo so probably a year old at purchase. I wheeled and dealed free delivery and installation. I also had them throw in an open toe foot. Mine has the old style closed foot so is high enough to use as a ruler foot with no issues. The newer models the closed toe foot is not as high and while you can use it as a ruler foot you are better off buying one for the newer machines. I have since upgraded my standard SR to L/S - totally worth it!! When they installed he gave me a quick hands on lesson in loading, threading, changing needles, flipping the head, adjusting tension. Probably about an hour and a half walk through. I had previously taken a class at another dealer as well with an HQ machine(so I could rent, but that never happened). The idea of 5 free lessons from the dealer is very appealing. Most hands on L/A classes at the major shows run around $300 for a 4 hour class. I don't have micro handles and I have done micro work without them. My friend made her own. They don't have off on buttons on them but are perfectly functional. You may not need the micro handles. Even without the warrantee Innova offers free 24/7/365 phone support. The machines are so well made you probably wouldn't take advantage of any warrantee. Only you can decide if the warrantee, delivery and installation is worth the extra you would pay. For me, installation was a big deal. I wanted to play right away and I know from years of camping with my husband that setting up that rack on our own would have lead to a big fight between us. But my DH has done some mechanical repairs on mine when we had to replace a belt.

I would be hard pressed to decide which deal to go with (private sale or dealer sale). If you think you can disassemble the rack and reset it up with minimal heartache and you can get the seller down another 1 to 2 grand go for the private sale. If not, go with the dealer and don't be afraid to ask them to throw in some stuff like extra feet, bobbins, etc. or you can even be as bold as I was and ask for free delivery and setup. The worst that can happen is they say no. I have never seen them offer any specials at the shows.

Good luck with whatever you decide. IMHO you can't go wrong with an Innova, but I am biased.

That seems quite high to me for an almost 5 year old used machine, because yes they depreciate. I'd be thinking more like 10k. However, to the owners they know it's lightly/barely used and people typically over-estimate the value of their own possessions.

Here's some national listings for used machines through one of my local-to-me long arm quilters:
https://longarmuniversity.com/MachinesForSale.html#M4S

Thank you all for your input! Fyi, after doing a little research, I think I know what the machine's asking price was when she bought it. It was $14,995, so $5 less than she is asking. Weird, huh? All the info from the original ad sale fits the description of this one. Btw, she bought it from a sub dealer in 2016, so a year old then. I am on my way to see it. It's about 1 1/2 hour drive for me. I'm in So.Cal - we tend to use time instead of miles. lol I will check this thread when I get there, plus report back. Thanks again!

For negotiating purposes, they will stress that it is "like new" but here's the thing, there is new stuff now that wasn't around 5 years ago.

Hi! So I went to see the Innova. The person selling it has a longarm business and the machine was located at her business. She said she has used it for free motion quilting and rents it out occasionally on Saturdays. She also has a Huge Gammil with computer, which is what she uses for the bulk of her business. The machine was clean and looked to be in very good condition, with just a few scuff marks on the frame. I test drove it for a bit and it felt and sounded like the other Innovas I have used. It did seem to have a very slight vibration but I think that might have been because she had a fairly small quilt sample on the machine for me to test on. I mentioned the vibration and she put the side clamps on, which seemed to help.

She had already arranged for someone else to quilt on it today, so I got to see that person use it, too. The owner showed us how to load the quilt (red snappers, floated top) and she set it up for a large meander pantograph. The customer's quilt was a small lap size quilt and it came out really nice. The stitching on the back was just as nice as the front - lovely, even Innova stitches.

She is including in the sale lots of extra bobbins, some Innova thread, extra feet (4), extra needles, lots of red snappers and lots of pantographs, plus a few other tools and the manual. I'm not really interested in pantograph but perhaps they would be nice to have to practice on donated quilts. Oh, it also has a thread break guide. I knew Innova had one but I had never seen one on a machine.

I did make an offer of $12,000. I thought that was fair considering the age and condition. She needed to contact her husband and discuss with him so she'll be getting back to me later. All in all, it was a very good experience and even if it doesn't work out I learned a lot. She was very generous with her time and knowledge.

Thanks again to all of you who have responded. Your generous sharing means a lot to me. This is a big purchase for me so I am a trying to make the best informed decision I can. Any other thoughts, please let me know.

Di

Does not sound like "lightly used" or really "private party" to me. If used for a business, she has already been able to write some or all of it off as a business expense.

Personally, the dealer one sounds like a much better deal - known dealer support, warranty, classes, and likely much less use for what is really not a whole lot more. Plus the dealer can deliver and set up, albeit for a cost, but that is a lot less hassle and concern to deal with.

Good luck getting it for the price you want to pay.

Yes, I agree. I was surprised when she said she rents it out occasionally. That was not mentioned in the "lightly used" ad description. Bugs me a little. I asked about stitch count but she did not know so she ent a text to Mike at Innova. He said her machine didn't have that feature. So I don't know how to tell how much use it's actually had. I don't want to spend that kind of money and then have a major repair soon after.

not considering price, the fact that the "lightly used" one at the "private" dealer would probably not be the route I'd go just because I know that rental machines do get lots of use and often from people that are not as careful with them, or don't know how to use them. But I'd add that while I don't have an Innova, I do know that they are built to last.

Personally I would try to work out a better price with the dealer and get that one, it just sounds like a better deal to me. Just my opinion I hope everything works out for you!

I for one am curious about your decision. Good luck and let us know!

In my book the seller has a few strikes against her.
1. The machine has been rented for probably three years. She said “lightly used.” Not true.
2. She is not a private party, she’s a business woman. False advertising.
3. Her price is high.
4. The vibration— is this why she is selling it, I wonder?
5. She is 1.5 hrs from you so you would have to transport and aet up , and with a used machine, would she offer any support afterward if you meed it? My gut says no even if she says yes, because she already has been dishonest with 1 and 2.

I don’t deal with anyone who has given me that niggling feeling. i would pay more for full conference.

I purchased a "gently loved" (that's what they called it) Gammill several years ago; the person who had owned it traded it in for a computerized one. They threw in 10 large spools of thread; I could pick 10 pantos, a bunch of extra accessories; or parts for replacement a 4 foot ruler and delivered it and set it up for free AND demo'd it for me. They are 3 hours from me. I love it and use it quite a bit. Good luck with whichever one you choose; you'll get years of enjoyment and use from it.

I agree with mkc. If rented out it is not “gently used”. Also seemed to me that if the lady knew you were driving 1.5 hrs to see the machine, she would not have rented it to someone else to use during the time you said you would be there.

Also, when I bought my Gammill I had them set it up. So glad I did. Mine had to be completely broken down and pushed through a window (a very small window—barely fit because I have an older house) to get into my basement because the frame was too long to turn the corner at the foot of the stairs. Have you considered something like this happening? (I had not).

First let me say I know nothing about long arm quilting machines. However, that being said, since you will be going to the Houston International Quilt Show in Oct/Nov is it possible that you could purchase one for a discount from the ones they use in classes? Seems like I've heard of that before on other machines and that they give FULL warranty on them even though they were used in the classes. I'm sure an Innova dealer will be at the show that could give you more insight and possibly a better deal. Of course Oct/Nov is quite a ways away & the one you are considering may be sold by then if you don't buy now.

Di,

I am glad you took your time with the machine and asked questions. I think your offer was more than fair, especially considering the seller was not upfront in her ad regarding the rental use and being a business owner.

Have you called Innova to ask what may be causing the vibration? I would ask that question before going any further.

I would also call them to ask how to check the stitch count. It seems somewhat unbelievable that they cannot determine it on a 5 year old machine. My HQ is 15 years old and it is very easy to check the stitch count.

Now I do not put too much weight on stitch count, these machines are designed to have millions upon millions of stitches. I would be more concerned about buying a rental machine.

If she has been using it as a rental for the past 3 years, she has been both making money off the machine and having a business write off. Her asking for basically what she paid for it is pushing her luck. I am glad you offered about 75% of her asking price.

Good morning! First let me say you all are awesome! I truly appreciate the advice you have given. Thank you!

I have decided not to purchase the used machine from the business owner. I spent the rest of yesterday with an uneasy feeling about it so decided to trust my gut feelings, which have rarely failed me. I have test driven nearly every longarm numerous times but always come back to the Innova. And every time I have put my hands on an Innova's handles I have loved the machine. But this morning I woke up with a clear head and the first thought was I did not love that machine yesterday! Maybe it's just me, but if it's going to live in my home, I gotta love it! lol!

Tothill, yes, that vibration is a real concern. And I'm almost certain there is a way to see the stitch count because I seem to remember being shown that feature at a show. That whole interaction with that question to the seller was weird and evasive. As well as the rental revelation. As for price, she was using the new pricing, plus tax and delivery to determine her selling price. I politely let her know that a new machine had no use other than testing (definitely not rental use!) with full warranty, and that my offer was based on her used machine price and depreciation. She was somewhat flustered after that but did not refuse my offer. Still I have not heard back from her so I assume she really wants her price.

As for the customer using the machine she was trying to sell me, that was already arranged. Still I do agree the ad should have included the rental use info.

So my plan going forward (which was my original plan) is to take the Innova certification class at the sub dealer here in So. California (our dealer is in northern California). That will be in September. Then I will rent one of her machines a few times to really get a feel for how they should perform. As I said earlier, I am not in a rush to buy. Also, I am taking two longarm classes at HIQF - one with Jamie Wallen and one with Bethanne Nemesh (sp?), both using Innova machines. By that time I should be well informed in my buying decision.

Di

Excellent plan and congrats on being able to keep your common sense on this!

Doing the certification class then renting a machine for several projects is an outstanding way to test things out. I did that when I first started looking (still haven't bought but am also almost definitely going Innova when I finally bite the bullet), and it eliminated a brand from my short list.

Thanks, mkc! I did hear back from her. She countered at $12,500, then reduced it another $150 because she wanted to replace the bobbin winder for me since the old one was having some problem. I believe she is honest about her machine and it's condition but I would feel better if it had a recent dealer check up and clean bill of health. I'm not good at purchasing used large ticket items. I'm just not experienced enough to know if I'm heading into a major repair nightmare.

I hope you get what you want, too. And have a great experience doing so! And I hope the info in this thread will help others in their decision making.

I still think the 1 year old dealer machine is a much better deal, even at the higher price

Thanks! I almost bought a sit-down Innova at a quilt show because I instantly bonded with it (it was an OMG moment - and I played and played and didn't want to stop), but I really hate doing the quilt sandwiching and we were moving within the year, so I held off and do think I'll be going the longarm route. Fortunately, I'm less than 2 hours from a really well-regarded Innova dealer that usually has a number of options, both Innova and other brands, available used.

Michelle

I would opt for the set up and lessons.

When I bought mine, the owner was moving to the opposite end of the state. I really needed lessons. Then the bank said, you'd better rent out that apartment that this machine is sitting in. Now the frame is in the garage and the head is in a box in the living room. My one hip hurts when I quilt on it. So now I need to decide if I want to keep it and get a computer program to run it, or what.