http://www.prochemicalanddye.com/store/home.php?cat=323

The directions for both say to use Hot water (140 degrees F., 60 degrees C)

The instructions for Retayne suggest treating the fabric Before cutting it.

Retayne - soak fabrics for 20 minutes in hot water, then rinse

Synthrapol - soak 10-12 minutes in hot water, then rinse.

As far as I can tell from that info, they are Not interchangeable.

retayne helps set the dyes

synthrapol keeps fugitive dyes from getting on other fabrics in the water.

2 different animals

I love synthrapol. I always put a cap in when I wash my completed quilts. I haven't had a disaster yet. No, I don't pre wash, and I dye fabric and clothing quite often.

Becky at my LQS (Sunshine Stitches) explained it to me this way:

Use Retayne to prevent fabric from bleeding. Use Synthrpol (or other fabric catchers when your fabric has already bled. If you think a fabric might bleed, prevent it by using Retayne. If you have a 'surprise' of bleeding, Synthrapol will help remove the runs.

She always knows how to break down a matter for a dumb newbie!

Thanks for the info, Bearisgray!! :)
I bought some and forgot why lol

Thanks for the info. I guess I need both. I only bought one of them.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Thanks for the info!

How do you get the water to 140 degrees? I tried it in the wash and even added boiling water and I could only get it to 130 degree. What is your secret?

P.S. - My water heater was set to the highest setting too!

I too wondered that. When I taught commercial cooking and the water had to be 140 degrees for washing dishes, we had to have a special booster heater installed to make it that hot.

I don't use either product -

But it would seem to make sense to me to use the products as directed, if one is going to go to the expense and effort of using them.

I soak new fabrics (similar colors and/or shades together) in water as hot as it comes from the tap (not hot enough to scald myself if I do a quick dip in it - but quite uncomfortable if I linger in it) for at least half an hour.

I use the sink if I have a lot of items, a small kettle or bowl if it's something like a fat quarter.

I smoosh the fabric(s) up and down a few times in the water maybe every ten minutes or so just to stir it up a bit.

If the water is still clear, all is good and I put the piece aside to be very gently washed and dried.

I think the agitation is what makes new fabric look "worn" in the washing process.

If the water has acquired some color - I go through the pieces and see which one is putting out the color.

I isolate that one and soak and rinse it some more until the water is clear - or almost clear.

Then - when I think that the black (or whatever color) piece won't discolor that white (or other lighter colored) piece - I dump all the wet stuff into the washer and give it a quick gentle wash with just a smidgen of detergent - dry it on permanent press in the dryer until just dry - fold and put away until time to cut it.

If I get a piece that continues to color the water - I will try to return it (if it's a relatively recent purchase and I still have the receipt)

If the store won't accept it, I discard it. No point in mucking up my project or someone else's.

I've had a couple of pieces that were still coloring 20 changes of water. There comes a time to accept that the piece is a loser!

The stuff I make goes to people that do well to get things washed - forget about "special treatment"

I do have a hissy about using liquid bleach when washing quilts.

I have this idea that fabric should behave "on its own" and that the owner of the quilt should only need to use "reasonable care" when washing it.

I do know about color catchers, etc. I just don't they should be necessary!

My understanding is that once you use the Retayne to fix or set the colors, the final owner of the quilt can wash normally. Perhaps someone else can chime in here to correct me if I'm wrong?

I'm asking how to get the water up to 140 degrees as I have a batik quilt with purple and aqua and I forgot to wash both fabrics before quilting, so I want to use Retayne to set the colors, so my quilt and all my hard work won't be ruined! Plus its a wedding gift for my niece....ack! I can't believe I forgot to wash the fabrics!

I found that article to be quite informative.

Have you taken the time to read it yet?

If the quilt is already made - I think Synthrapol is the product to use.

I have read the article instructions, my biggest question is how to get the water hot enough! I did exactly as instructed with the boiling water and I could only get it to 130 at the hottest...

This is not really accurate.

Retayne should not be used on any completed quilt, only on fabric before it is combined with any others. You only need to treat with Retayne once, but the quilt made with treated fabric should be washed in warm water with a cold rinse in order to preserve the “lock” on the dyes. Do not wash the quilt in hot water.

Synthrapol will keep floating dye from setting in the wash, but it will not remove dye that has previously run and set (in the dryer for instance), so it will not 'fix' any oopsies of the past. It is the same as a Color Catcher. You add Synthrapol to each wash as long as your fabric keeps bleeding.

Simply put, use Retayne before you sew things together, not after. Use Synthrapol after you sew things together.

You do not soak for 20 (or 10-12 as the case may be) minutes, you stir or agitate for 20 minutes. Both products must be actively moving through the fabric.

No, they are not the same substance and they are not interchangeable.

Retayne is composed of molecules with a positive charge. These molecules are attracted to the negatively charged dye molecules. When the two molecules stick together, it makes them larger, so that they stick between the fibres of the fabric more effectively (think Winnie the Pooh).

Retayne is applied using hot (over 140 degree F) water. Once you have treated fabric with Retayne, washing the fabric in hot water will wash out the Retayne.

According to Paula Burch, Retayne has two main drawbacks: a) it contains a small amount of formaldehyde and b) there is growing evidence that fabrics treated with Retayne are less lightfast. In effect, it is possible that what you gain in washfastness, you lose in lightfastness.

Everything in life is a trade-off and there is never a single answer that is right for every person in every single situation.

Synthrapol is a neutral detergent which contains no optical brighteners. The neutral pH means it is good for protein fibres (which prefer acid environments) and will not create a wash environment alkaline enough to affect fabric dyed with fibre reactive dyes. For a long time, Synthrapol was believed to be somehow better at suspending loose dye particles in solution, rather than letting them settle back down onto the fabric but this has been largely disproven (even though there are still advertising claims to that effect).

Synthrapol does not have any optical brighteners in it, which are special dyes that convert UV light to make light colours appear lighter. Manufacturers include them in most detergent formulations because they make the detergent seem more effect at getting light coloured items cleaner (we've been carefully taught via advertising that whiter equals cleaner).

Optical brighteners also make dark colours appear lighter or washed out, so a quilt that relies on the richness of dark colours for its impact may appear less dramatic.

Don't know the answer - our grandma's used to have these big "wash boilers" that they cooked their laundry in.

I had one, too, when we were first married.

Try this address now - the one in my original post is not working.

http://www.prochemicalanddye.com/home.php?cat=323


I should have stated that the fabrics can't just loll around in the water and chemicals. Some agitation is required.

Start as much water boiling as you can (think four spaghetti pots or whatever), turn your water heater up as high as possible, boil as much water as possible, set the washing machine fill level as low as you can and still accomodate the quilt, boil as much water as you can, find a thermometer that reads in that range, boil as much water as you can.

Did I mention boiling as much water as you can?

Fill the washing machine, check the water temp, then start adding boiling water, checking the temperature after each addition. When the water bath has reached 140 degrees, proceed with washing your quilt.

You may have to boil some more water.

This thread has been a great discussion and very educational.

I used the Synthrapol to wash my completed quilt, using as much boiling water as I could and resetting the temp on the water heater to the highest level and was finally able to reach 140 degrees.

Unfortunately my quilt had some bleeding of the purple into the aqua, but only in a few areas and only one area "sticks out" and is very noticeable. I didn't see it until after I dried the quilt...

I think I read the directions wrong and rinsed it with cold water...did I set the running color by using cold instead of warm?

Suggestions? My Dh says I should let well enough alone and just give the quilt to our niece, but I'm worried when she washes it, it will bleed more...???

It is highly unlikely to impossible that you set the dye with a cold water rinse. I suppose the manufacturer may have used some sort of dye that I have never heard of... which would be unlikely (I've been hand dyeing for over 20 years and read everything I can find about dyes).

I suspect that the bleeding is actually staining, whereby hydrolized dye molecules (dye molecules that have bonded to water molecules) became lodged into the fibres of the adjoining area.

If my theory is correct, then the stained areas will lighten with each successive washing (in warm or even cold water) will dislodge some of them. Eventually they will all be gone.

I vote for your DH's suggestion. Maybe wash the quilt one more time on the ordinary warm or cold setting of your washing machine, then give it to your niece.

After all, you don't want to fuss with this quilt until it turns into a gift for her retirement party!

I use color catchers in my wash. You would be surprised to see how red the catcher is after being washed with my 10 years old sheets that were washed at least 100 times. I believe in color catchers. I know they work since my husband's undershirts are no longer pink. Lol!

A note about using Retayne , once used , you Must wash the quilt or fibers treated in Cold water . Do not use it on completed quilts....use Synthropol on completed projects.
If its a quilt I am giving as a gift I am reluctant to trust the recipient will always always use cold water to wash. Using warm or hotter water will remove the Retayne and you are back to a potential bleeding situation. So I wash the fabrics or rinse , till the water runs clear with warm to hotish water.
As for getting the water to 140 , I use a stainless pot on the stove and keep swishing the fabric . For large amounts of fabric I found a old canning pot at a garage sale.

The directions for the Retayne say to use for fabrics which might bleed...will help set in the color. Synthrapol says will help pull out excess dyes, such as those used in hand-dyed fabrics like batiks. This is how I've used them.

I was intrigued by the use of the Retayne for all fabrics across the board prior to use, and for the use of Synthrapol once a quilt is completed.

Nevertheless, here is a link to the products' page which gives instructions on their uses: http://www.softexpressions.com/softw...tCareProd.html

This is very good information, just what I needed.