I agree. Both are good machines, but you will not be getting any warranty or dealer service. These machines are over-priced. Years ago I bought a pre-loved Viking Rose from a local dealer; someone had traded up. He sold it for me at a very good price, plus I had the advantages of a warranty, classes, help any time I needed it etc. I'm still using that machine and love it. Think through what you might do if you encounter a problem. The small savings you gain at the beginning could cost you more later. If the savings is great enough, it is worth the risk, but these machines seem to be priced high. I would visit my local dealers and see what might be available from them in a used machine if you cannot afford a new one. I also have a Janome Threadbanger 30 and it is a great machine. A lady in my quilt bee has a Pfaff and loves it; she makes beautiful quilts. Wonderful that we have so many great options to choose from! Hope you find a great machine at a great price!