Thanks for the info steve i went into these sites but it looks like it is for older machines. I did however get a phone number and with this being the holiday there was no answer but i will try again on tuesday. The two machines i am looking for information on would fall into the new home category. I say one was made in the late 50's early 60's and the other one that is in the cabinet known or listed as a commander 7000 has to have been started in the 60's cause that is about when some of the cam machines were coming out. But again thanks for the sites and i will let you know how it goes.