I based a quilt on a photo.....Copyright question
10-29-2019, 01:01 PM
#11
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Greater Peoria, IL -- just moved!
Posts: 6,127
It's nice when I agree with Lawyers, otherwise I say well that's what lawyers are for is to present opposing sides.
In this case the painting was the original work, you could run into issues if you exhibited it (and you will notice in some TV home shows how they blur the artwork), and then there was a photo of the picture (I don't know if it was taken by someone else or not) which again should be referenced, and then there was a quilt. The quilt is its own object, it is not the same media as either of the previous forms. And, as QuiltingLawyer said, it is a useful object and so especially not protected.
I started working at a large advertising agency where I had to deal with many copyright issues. You know how sometimes if you ask for a "coke" and they say "we have Pepsi" that's because the agency I worked for had the Coca Cola account (and Loreal and others you know), and periodically they would send us out as secret agents and deliberately ask for a Coke at a Pepsi place and report back what happened. Some brands are vigilant about copyright protection because words become common use. Bandaid is a brand name. They will get you in a tv show, movie, or print at if you are using a bandage and calling it a Bandaid. Kitty Litter is another brand name trying hard not to become generic. "Cat Box Filler" is the actual term.
It is fair personal use for you to make a direct lift of someone else's quilt down to the same fabrics even, if you make no changes, you can even quilt it the same. Basically, if you can design it you can make it and once you make it you can show it. I wouldn't show such a thing as an original work but I have no problems crediting the designed. Some organizations may have rules for attribution if you show it. I personally believe in attribution in addition to copyright protections, they are separate but related issues.
We are discussing some of these issues in this thread and it is a good discussion for quilters to have, when does something become "yours":
Needing Help Finding A Quilt Pattern
In this case the painting was the original work, you could run into issues if you exhibited it (and you will notice in some TV home shows how they blur the artwork), and then there was a photo of the picture (I don't know if it was taken by someone else or not) which again should be referenced, and then there was a quilt. The quilt is its own object, it is not the same media as either of the previous forms. And, as QuiltingLawyer said, it is a useful object and so especially not protected.
I started working at a large advertising agency where I had to deal with many copyright issues. You know how sometimes if you ask for a "coke" and they say "we have Pepsi" that's because the agency I worked for had the Coca Cola account (and Loreal and others you know), and periodically they would send us out as secret agents and deliberately ask for a Coke at a Pepsi place and report back what happened. Some brands are vigilant about copyright protection because words become common use. Bandaid is a brand name. They will get you in a tv show, movie, or print at if you are using a bandage and calling it a Bandaid. Kitty Litter is another brand name trying hard not to become generic. "Cat Box Filler" is the actual term.
It is fair personal use for you to make a direct lift of someone else's quilt down to the same fabrics even, if you make no changes, you can even quilt it the same. Basically, if you can design it you can make it and once you make it you can show it. I wouldn't show such a thing as an original work but I have no problems crediting the designed. Some organizations may have rules for attribution if you show it. I personally believe in attribution in addition to copyright protections, they are separate but related issues.
We are discussing some of these issues in this thread and it is a good discussion for quilters to have, when does something become "yours":
Needing Help Finding A Quilt Pattern
10-29-2019, 01:49 PM
#12
Power Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 17,728
Watson ... something to consider ... are there different takes whether USA? or Canada?
I can't answer the question, directly. However .....
There is an extensive article written by a Canadian lawyer and quilter. I'm pretty sure from K-W.
It has been referenced more than once on the QB either fully or with a link to it.
What I remember about it was .....
that there was some unique twist about the subject, dependent on whether American or Canadian.
And that she explained it well ......... sorry, wish I had kept it!
Look forward to seeing what you have created.
I can't answer the question, directly. However .....
There is an extensive article written by a Canadian lawyer and quilter. I'm pretty sure from K-W.
It has been referenced more than once on the QB either fully or with a link to it.
What I remember about it was .....
that there was some unique twist about the subject, dependent on whether American or Canadian.
And that she explained it well ......... sorry, wish I had kept it!
Look forward to seeing what you have created.
10-29-2019, 03:04 PM
#13
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 141
[QUOTE=Iceblossom;8320064]It's nice when I agree with Lawyers, otherwise I say well that's what lawyers are for is to present opposing sides.[QUOTE]
I'm glad I could agree with you!!! LOL! My IP Professor used to work for the law firm that represented Coke so it was funny that you used that as an example. I'm kind of a property and intellectual property nerd... but I have a criminal defense/family law practice out in the country. Any time I get to talk IP I'm all about it!
I'm glad I could agree with you!!! LOL! My IP Professor used to work for the law firm that represented Coke so it was funny that you used that as an example. I'm kind of a property and intellectual property nerd... but I have a criminal defense/family law practice out in the country. Any time I get to talk IP I'm all about it!
10-29-2019, 03:41 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 827
Here's your very legal answer.....
It is not copyright infringement if it is for your own personal use. You do not need to give credit for any designs or patterns that you use for any quilts you make if it's for yourself or gifts. In the digital age we have started to confuse what copyright actually is and how it's violated.
Attribution actually not a requirement of copyright. The only time there is copyright infringement is when you are selling someone else quilt pattern and saying that it is your own. Even if you made quilts to sell from someone else's pattern you do not need to attribute the pattern to them.
Now.... let us see that quilt! I really want to make eyes at it and oooooh and aaaaahhhh over it.
It is not copyright infringement if it is for your own personal use. You do not need to give credit for any designs or patterns that you use for any quilts you make if it's for yourself or gifts. In the digital age we have started to confuse what copyright actually is and how it's violated.
Attribution actually not a requirement of copyright. The only time there is copyright infringement is when you are selling someone else quilt pattern and saying that it is your own. Even if you made quilts to sell from someone else's pattern you do not need to attribute the pattern to them.
Now.... let us see that quilt! I really want to make eyes at it and oooooh and aaaaahhhh over it.
10-29-2019, 04:48 PM
#15
Super Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 9,444
Just for clarification.... You do not need to get permission to display a quilt that you made from someone's pattern.
Copyright in the context of quilts, fabric arts, and patterns is for the pattern only. The actual physical pattern that you purchased. The quilt that is made from that pattern is in no way copyrighted. Quilts, like clothes, are useful items and cannot be copyrighted. Even the quilt the designer made while designing the quilt is NOT copyrighted work. Only the pattern. And even then, most do not go through the process of formally copyrighting their work.
Copyright in the context of quilts, fabric arts, and patterns is for the pattern only. The actual physical pattern that you purchased. The quilt that is made from that pattern is in no way copyrighted. Quilts, like clothes, are useful items and cannot be copyrighted. Even the quilt the designer made while designing the quilt is NOT copyrighted work. Only the pattern. And even then, most do not go through the process of formally copyrighting their work.
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...opyright.shtml
It's my understanding that this situation only became a problem when someone started mass-producing and marketing items for profit without any kind of licensing contracts or permissions.
So how do you protect yourself and your creations if someone can take a picture of a quilt you made and have it printed on, say, a fleece blanket, then market it on Facebook? I see these types of posts on FB every day (and it drives me crazy!)
10-29-2019, 06:47 PM
#16
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 141
Peckish... from my brief reading of this article I got two thing:
1. I hate that lawyers have such a bad rap. My profession is not killing things. The internet and Pinterest have made it so we can share more pictures and content then ever before. And the original copyright holder has to be diligent if they really want to protect it.
2. The copyright issue in that case is what was the copyright? The picture of the quilt in the published book. The owner of the copyright to the book is the one whose rights have been violated. It’s the same as you can’t just take a picture of a book cover and start selling bags with it printed on it on Etsy.
So... my best advice [opinion] for you to protect your designs to make sure if you publish them file the paperwork with the copyright office so you have the legal standing to fight back against infringement.
Now I’m going to go get extra nerdy and read that court case or settlement depending on what they did. Because that’s how this girl unwinds ��*♀️
1. I hate that lawyers have such a bad rap. My profession is not killing things. The internet and Pinterest have made it so we can share more pictures and content then ever before. And the original copyright holder has to be diligent if they really want to protect it.
2. The copyright issue in that case is what was the copyright? The picture of the quilt in the published book. The owner of the copyright to the book is the one whose rights have been violated. It’s the same as you can’t just take a picture of a book cover and start selling bags with it printed on it on Etsy.
So... my best advice [opinion] for you to protect your designs to make sure if you publish them file the paperwork with the copyright office so you have the legal standing to fight back against infringement.
Now I’m going to go get extra nerdy and read that court case or settlement depending on what they did. Because that’s how this girl unwinds ��*♀️
Last edited by patricej; 10-30-2019 at 01:44 AM. Reason: simply to emphasize that the "advice" is based on opinion.
10-29-2019, 07:17 PM
#17
Super Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9,299
I'm enjoying this thread. I love nerdy lawyer talk
. One of the podcasts I enjoy is hosted by a University of Tulane Law professor who loves to quilt and talk copyright. The best episode I heard had guests Tula Pink and Mary Fons discussing the nitty gritty of copyright and how violations affect them financially and emotionally.
The podcast is called "Just Wanna Quilt."
. One of the podcasts I enjoy is hosted by a University of Tulane Law professor who loves to quilt and talk copyright. The best episode I heard had guests Tula Pink and Mary Fons discussing the nitty gritty of copyright and how violations affect them financially and emotionally. The podcast is called "Just Wanna Quilt."
10-30-2019, 01:58 AM
#18
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southeast Georgia, USA
Posts: 9,109
Let's all remember a few things:
- we are an international board and - as has been pointed out - intellectual property laws vary between countries.
- court cases are won or lost based on which side presented the most persuasive argument. whether the verdict is by judge or jury it's sent down by one or more human beings who might filter the facts through their own opinions or interpretations.
this is where you will find the facts about US copyright law.
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/
i recommend you get a good night's sleep and have aspirin handy before you dive in.
- we are an international board and - as has been pointed out - intellectual property laws vary between countries.
- court cases are won or lost based on which side presented the most persuasive argument. whether the verdict is by judge or jury it's sent down by one or more human beings who might filter the facts through their own opinions or interpretations.
this is where you will find the facts about US copyright law.
https://www.copyright.gov/title17/
i recommend you get a good night's sleep and have aspirin handy before you dive in.
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10-30-2019, 02:03 AM
#19
Super Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,783
Personal use really has nothing to do with copyright infringement. Mass marketing is a separate issue. If you copy someone else's original design (note that this must be an original design) then you need to have their permission.
One of the little known and usually disregarded facts about copyright is that you are technically required to get a pattern designer's permission before exhibiting a quilt made from their original design and pattern. Most designers freely give permission, and I haven't heard of any that complained if permission was not given, but you are technically still required to ask.
If the original painting is a masterpiece like Starry Night or the Mona Lisa, it is obviously not under copyright protection, which has a limited time span.
One of the little known and usually disregarded facts about copyright is that you are technically required to get a pattern designer's permission before exhibiting a quilt made from their original design and pattern. Most designers freely give permission, and I haven't heard of any that complained if permission was not given, but you are technically still required to ask.
If the original painting is a masterpiece like Starry Night or the Mona Lisa, it is obviously not under copyright protection, which has a limited time span.
10-30-2019, 05:36 AM
#20
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Keller, TX
Posts: 1,927
Dunster is not correct in this instance. Please refer to the Quilting Lawyer, expert in knowledge of copyright. You are assuming that all "work", "designs" are automatically copyrighted.....that is not the case. A "copyright owner" in relations to quilts and clothing is not valid. A copyright owner of a widget used in manufacturing would be protected. You do not have to get permission to exhibit a quilt made from a pattern that was purchased.
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