Any questions for the fabric sales rep?
04-02-2011, 11:26 AM
#43
Super Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 9,312
Originally Posted by QKO
Originally Posted by Lori S
Yes , I have one that no one ever seems to give a good answer ... Why can they not make batiks fabric that does not run or bleed? The 1895 types are the worst at bleeding. Some others not so much . My biggest concern is that some do not start the bleeding right away , probaly becasue there is still a bit of the resist still in the fabric , so sometimes once the soap has started to remove that bit of resist that remains , then its starts to bleed.
I have put batiks in the sink and at first it may seem all is good but if left overnight the true bleeding is revealed.
If they can sell a product ( Retayne to stop the bleeding) why can they not stop it when its made. I understand its one more process, but I would think that a particular manifacure whould have a stratigic market edge , if they could market a true "no bleed batik".
Well I guess I have two questions... Why are two color fabrics priced as much as fabrics that have as many as twenty colors? I have pruchased spectacular screened prints with sometimes as many as 25 screen colors.. and they can cost the same as the two or three color prints?!!!! Is it cost averaging on the manufactures part?
Well I guess there is a third ... can't they come up with some way to identify a batik fabric. Regular fabrics have the salvedge that we come to rely on. I understand that the process for batiks is so different , but there must be some way a manufacture can find to be able to even identify who made it .. having more info as to the line, design, ect would be a huge bonus. It is impossible sometimes to tell even in the 1895 types which exact one you have. One of the great features of that type is that you can can darn close to the same ... if you know what the number is from when you purchase it.
Well that was more questions than I thought when I started this!!!
I have put batiks in the sink and at first it may seem all is good but if left overnight the true bleeding is revealed.
If they can sell a product ( Retayne to stop the bleeding) why can they not stop it when its made. I understand its one more process, but I would think that a particular manifacure whould have a stratigic market edge , if they could market a true "no bleed batik".
Well I guess I have two questions... Why are two color fabrics priced as much as fabrics that have as many as twenty colors? I have pruchased spectacular screened prints with sometimes as many as 25 screen colors.. and they can cost the same as the two or three color prints?!!!! Is it cost averaging on the manufactures part?
Well I guess there is a third ... can't they come up with some way to identify a batik fabric. Regular fabrics have the salvedge that we come to rely on. I understand that the process for batiks is so different , but there must be some way a manufacture can find to be able to even identify who made it .. having more info as to the line, design, ect would be a huge bonus. It is impossible sometimes to tell even in the 1895 types which exact one you have. One of the great features of that type is that you can can darn close to the same ... if you know what the number is from when you purchase it.
Well that was more questions than I thought when I started this!!!
All of these are hand-dyed, the batiks have an extra step or two added wherein a "chop" is used to imprint a pattern feature onto the fabric using a wax resistor that forms the pattern during hand dyeing. The "chop" is sort of like a big rubber stamp, only it's not rubber. All hand-dyes and batiks are hand-made in usually small cottage-industry type settings.
The Hoffman 1895's are technically hand-dyes, not batiks, as they don't have a "chop" pattern. Think 1960's tie-dyeing and you're pretty close to how they're made.
Batiks are stretched on frames and made a section at a time. They're not screen printed or printed on rotary presses. They do have a hardened "selvedge" edge to allow mounting with pins on frames however. If you look closely at your batik or hand-dye fabric you'll see this hardened "selvedge edge and pinholes where the mounting pins were. Since this edge is used to manually mount the fabric on frames for imprinting, it isn't possible to print a fabric information strip on the fabric like it is with rotary press-printed fabrics. That and the fact that it would be very labor-intensive to do it, without any added benefit to the manufacturer.
To obtain replacement fabric, you'll need both the fabric pattern number and the color number. This is usually expressed in a two part number, example: Hoffman California 1895-42, which would be pattern 1895 and color 42 (primrose).
Since most fabrics only have the pattern number, and not the color number printed on the selvedge edge., you don't have full information there anyway that you can use later in finding more of the fabric. We suggest you keep a notebook showing the full fabric information, maker, pattern number and color number, along with a small sample for each fabric you buy that you would conceivably need more of later.
I guess the answer to your first question, about bleeding, is this; Since making hand-dyes and batiks is a cottage industry, very labor intensive, the investment in pre-washing and/or pre-treating those fabrics would be substantial. The chemicals involved in regular fabric printing to do this on a large-scale basis need special handling and expensive equipment, which your small family cottage industry isn't going to have access to.
Would you be prepared to pay an additional several dollars a yard for batiks and hand-dyes that are prewashed and/or pre-treated to prevent bleed? Or would you rather do it yourself?
Having gone through a enormous volume of batiks ( as a consumer) and having the high risk of bleed in every single batik.... it just seems that they ( manufactures) have not fully acknoledged that this is an issue. When selecting batiks for a project. I have never had a LQS owner ever even suggest that a batik might bleed and that special care should be taken prior to the use, or in washing.
My question was just is it cost ? do we they really know what the costs could be? have they( the manufactures) explored this issue? have they explored altering the process or dyes ?
I know how they are made now... and the difference in hand dyes vs batik vs water color "batiks". As far as the cost goes , the process is aready cost intensive, materials, labor ect. If the cost is 1/2 of what the consumer pays ( typically) that makes the product cost ruffly $5.00 per yard ( included greige goods , dyes. labor transport etc) Figuring the dyes are labor are represntative of 1/3 the cost ( high side) that makes this part at a cost of $1.65 .... not all the dyes costs and labor would be a complete duplication so use an additional 40 percent ( high) additional cost .. that would make the final cost to the market at a ruff very high estimate of additional .66 cents.. translated to 1.32 additional cost to the final consumer. This is very ruff high estimating, and believe the true additional cost to be lower. Having seen some of the "equipment" used , it is not all that unsuitable for the same or simialiar process we use in a truely small dyeing operation ( ie a yard or two) except on a larger scale.
The current processes used now are far from being Eco - freindly...
The demand for batiks has not diminshed , so treating this segment as fad ( by a manufacture) an being less than diligent in producing a product that has no comsumer flaws( ie bleeding and running), would be something I would think the manufacture would want to improve apon, so I posed the question in my post "why do they not make a batik that will not run or bleed?".
This is really just an inquiring mind really wanting to know!
04-02-2011, 12:00 PM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Canton, GA
Posts: 765
Yes, my question is this...Why is it that when I find a fabric collection that I really love I can hardly ever find a shop either online or brick and mortar that carries the complete collection. For example, I am trying to purchase RJR's Tasha Tudor "A is for Annabelle" to make Diane Nagle's (Peddlecar Quilts) "Annabelle's Alphabet" quilt. I am having a really difficult time finding one single source that carries the two panels and 5 particular fabrics from the collection at a reasonable price so that I only have to pay one shipping charge. Apparently very few shops picked up this collection even though it's based on a very noteworthy children's classic (originally published in 1954). Some shops only picked up the panels and a few of the coordinating fabrics, some the opposite. I know a local sales rep who had shown me the sample card before the collection was available. I may go back to her and see if she's willing to sell it to me if she is no longer trying to sell it. She said that very few of our local shops were interested in it enough to buy it but they all thought it was darling. This is just an example. I've had this happen to me on several different collections from different textile manufacturers. I suppose it comes down to the fact that the customer has to be ready to buy the moment a collection is released. This small quilt will end up costing me over $150 just for fabric but by the time I pay for shipping from 3 different shops it will be closer to $190. Add in batting and thread and it's over $200...and that's just for material, not including my time...yikes!!!
04-02-2011, 12:56 PM
#47
Super Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western Nevada
Posts: 2,520
Originally Posted by Lori S
I am very familiar with the production methods of batik and hand dyed fabric. Not all the batiks sold are quite so "cottage industry" that measures/techniques can not be used to make the finished product sold to us consumers more "project" ready.
Having gone through a enormous volume of batiks ( as a consumer) and having the high risk of bleed in every single batik.... it just seems that they ( manufactures) have not fully acknoledged that this is an issue. When selecting batiks for a project. I have never had a LQS owner ever even suggest that a batik might bleed and that special care should be taken prior to the use, or in washing.
My question was just is it cost ? do we they really know what the costs could be? have they( the manufactures) explored this issue? have they explored altering the process or dyes ?
I know how they are made now... and the difference in hand dyes vs batik vs water color "batiks". As far as the cost goes , the process is aready cost intensive, materials, labor ect. If the cost is 1/2 of what the consumer pays ( typically) that makes the product cost ruffly $5.00 per yard ( included greige goods , dyes. labor transport etc) Figuring the dyes are labor are represntative of 1/3 the cost ( high side) that makes this part at a cost of $1.65 .... not all the dyes costs and labor would be a complete duplication so use an additional 40 percent ( high) additional cost .. that would make the final cost to the market at a ruff very high estimate of additional .66 cents.. translated to 1.32 additional cost to the final consumer. This is very ruff high estimating, and believe the true additional cost to be lower. Having seen some of the "equipment" used , it is not all that unsuitable for the same or simialiar process we use in a truely small dyeing operation ( ie a yard or two) except on a larger scale.
The current processes used now are far from being Eco - freindly...
The demand for batiks has not diminshed , so treating this segment as fad ( by a manufacture) an being less than diligent in producing a product that has no comsumer flaws( ie bleeding and running), would be something I would think the manufacture would want to improve apon, so I posed the question in my post "why do they not make a batik that will not run or bleed?".
This is really just an inquiring mind really wanting to know!
Having gone through a enormous volume of batiks ( as a consumer) and having the high risk of bleed in every single batik.... it just seems that they ( manufactures) have not fully acknoledged that this is an issue. When selecting batiks for a project. I have never had a LQS owner ever even suggest that a batik might bleed and that special care should be taken prior to the use, or in washing.
My question was just is it cost ? do we they really know what the costs could be? have they( the manufactures) explored this issue? have they explored altering the process or dyes ?
I know how they are made now... and the difference in hand dyes vs batik vs water color "batiks". As far as the cost goes , the process is aready cost intensive, materials, labor ect. If the cost is 1/2 of what the consumer pays ( typically) that makes the product cost ruffly $5.00 per yard ( included greige goods , dyes. labor transport etc) Figuring the dyes are labor are represntative of 1/3 the cost ( high side) that makes this part at a cost of $1.65 .... not all the dyes costs and labor would be a complete duplication so use an additional 40 percent ( high) additional cost .. that would make the final cost to the market at a ruff very high estimate of additional .66 cents.. translated to 1.32 additional cost to the final consumer. This is very ruff high estimating, and believe the true additional cost to be lower. Having seen some of the "equipment" used , it is not all that unsuitable for the same or simialiar process we use in a truely small dyeing operation ( ie a yard or two) except on a larger scale.
The current processes used now are far from being Eco - freindly...
The demand for batiks has not diminshed , so treating this segment as fad ( by a manufacture) an being less than diligent in producing a product that has no comsumer flaws( ie bleeding and running), would be something I would think the manufacture would want to improve apon, so I posed the question in my post "why do they not make a batik that will not run or bleed?".
This is really just an inquiring mind really wanting to know!
I guess the question comes down to "Do they need to change methods to keep consumers buying their product?" And the answer seems to be "probably not."
I'm sorry that your LQS isn't cognizant of the fact that most batiks and hand-dyes will bleed or run when washed. In our online store, we send the following insert with every order that contains a batik or hand-dye:
(Store Logo)
Thank you for your purchase of these batik and/or hand-dyed fabrics!
PLEASE NOTE: MOST HAND-DYED FABRICS WILL BLEED WHEN WASHED! Darker colors will bleed out more than lighter colors. We suggest that you pre-wash all hand-dyed fabrics with a concentrated surfactant such as SYNTHRAPOL, or a dye-setter such as Retayne, being careful to follow the manufacturers instructions. Use of a “color-catcher” such as Shout brand Color Catcher Sheets is recommended for the finished project’s first washing.
QKO does not accept returns on any fabrics after they have been washed or because they bleed while being washed or used. Please contact us with any questions concerning our policy on these fabrics. Thanks!
Thank you for your purchase of these batik and/or hand-dyed fabrics!
PLEASE NOTE: MOST HAND-DYED FABRICS WILL BLEED WHEN WASHED! Darker colors will bleed out more than lighter colors. We suggest that you pre-wash all hand-dyed fabrics with a concentrated surfactant such as SYNTHRAPOL, or a dye-setter such as Retayne, being careful to follow the manufacturers instructions. Use of a “color-catcher” such as Shout brand Color Catcher Sheets is recommended for the finished project’s first washing.
QKO does not accept returns on any fabrics after they have been washed or because they bleed while being washed or used. Please contact us with any questions concerning our policy on these fabrics. Thanks!
04-02-2011, 01:04 PM
#48
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,569
Originally Posted by Favorite Fabrics
Originally Posted by quossj
Originally Posted by Gennynut
I am looking for non cutesy Christmas fabric. No Santas, animals dressed up in nativities, no living snowman. etc Looking for more classic fabrics for a quilt.
You may also like Robert Kaufman's "Holiday Flourish 4". http://www.robertkaufman.com/fabrics...ng_collections We did order quite a few of these for our shop. Last year, "Holiday Flourish 3" was our best-selling holiday group.
04-02-2011, 01:48 PM
#50
Super Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orchard Park, NY (near Buffalo, which is near Niagara Falls)
Posts: 3,884
Originally Posted by JoAnnGC
Yes, my question is this...Why is it that when I find a fabric collection that I really love I can hardly ever find a shop either online or brick and mortar that carries the complete collection... Some shops only picked up the panels and a few of the coordinating fabrics, some the opposite.
We always have the fabric manufacturers offering us a 15 cent/yard discount if we buy a full collection... but I almost always find that there are a couple of fabrics that I actively dislike. The amount of the discount that 15 cents is not even enough to cover the cost of a half-bolt of fabric. So why bother? I just pick-and-choose "the good ones".
BTW: the cost of picking up an entire line is in the area of $1000 - $2000, a rather significant amount!
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