201 potted motor drive

Old 07-02-2020, 07:47 AM
  #1  
Super Member
Thread Starter
 
leonf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: near Topeka kansas
Posts: 4,040
Default 201 potted motor drive

i just thought I'd post a couple pictures to show how a 201 potted motor actually spun the main shaft. I am supposing a 15-91 and the green variant is very similar. I was surprised that the clutch stop washer was different from a belted motor.
Attached Thumbnails vsm-201-motor-off-winder-c-2-.jpg   vsm-201-potted-drive-gear-handwheel-c.jpg  
leonf is offline  
Old 07-02-2020, 07:53 AM
  #2  
Super Member
Thread Starter
 
leonf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: near Topeka kansas
Posts: 4,040
Default

whoops didn't show drive
Attached Thumbnails vsm-201-drive-gear-potted-c.jpg  
leonf is offline  
Old 07-02-2020, 11:37 AM
  #3  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 44
Default

Thanks for sharing. I have got two beltet versions of the Singer 201k. I think the original motor i very weak, and from the information I have got on the potted motor, it is weak too. I have tried to figure out the gearing of the this potted drive from some photos from a Singer sewing machine blog. But I am not quite sure of this. I found 10 teeth on the motor shaft and 48 teeth on the main flywheel shaft. Can you confirm these figures?
Gymnast2 is offline  
Old 07-02-2020, 12:02 PM
  #4  
Super Member
Thread Starter
 
leonf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: near Topeka kansas
Posts: 4,040
Default

The machine isn't near me right now, but I'll check for you.
leonf is offline  
Old 07-02-2020, 04:11 PM
  #5  
Super Member
 
OurWorkbench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 2,455
Default

Originally Posted by Gymnast2 View Post
...Singer 201k. ... i very weak, ...potted motor, it is weak too....
I'm wondering what you consider weak. Weak would not be a word that I would associate with 201s from what I have read about these machines. According to https://sewalot.com/singer_201k_sewalot.htm Rolls Royce used the 201 for some of their upholstery and dashboards. Also, some English bookbinders switched from industrial machines to the 201. Doesn't sound like they are 'weak.'

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.
Not affiliated with off-site link(s)


OurWorkbench is offline  
Old 07-03-2020, 07:35 AM
  #6  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 44
Default

Originally Posted by OurWorkbench View Post
I'm wondering what you consider weak.
Thanks for your comment OurWorkbench.

I think that the 201 have got some excelent and strong mechanics, and it can gain a lot from having a stronger electric motor, that the original to domestic purposes. This is an example of the strength of a 201k with a modified drive:

Video of Singer 201k sewing plywood

According to my information, the potted motors used in the US have a 0.6 A rated input current. Many machines produced by Japan in the 1950-1970 for the US market had external motors with an input current of 1.0 - 1.5 A. I know, that it do not transfer directly to shaft power of the motor, but I think most electric motors at the time had higher input current than this 0.6 A and therefore the potted motor most likely have got lower shaft power than many other machines on the market.

For the European market the 201k was almost all belt driven with external motor. I have got two of those. I have measured the shaft torque and shaft power of one of these motors (produced 1950) and compared it to motors from a 66k (from 1930), the motor of a Singer 237 and a modern cheap motor from China. The result is here:


(I own the copyrights of this line chart in png-file)

As you can see, the motor of the 201 got the lowest shaft power in this comparison.

I do not know why the original motors for 201 was chosen to be so weak compared to motors of other sewing machines. I guess that special versions with stronger motors were sold for industrial use in upholstery and bookbinding.
Attached Thumbnails shaft-torque-vs-speed.png  
Gymnast2 is offline  
Old 07-06-2020, 08:08 AM
  #7  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 230
Default

Who on the hell wants to sew or would even think about sewing plywood for a start? While i don't own a model 201, i do use a 15-91 on a daily basis and have found no problems at all with weakness in the motor (regardless of material). Baffles me this kind of talk tbh. If you want a bit more punching power then swap the solid handwheel with the older spoked version i say
Hooligan is offline  
Old 07-07-2020, 06:56 AM
  #8  
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 44
Default

I agree, that sewing plywood is rare, but I know it was used for some panels in the Vintage MB sports vehicles. I have got this couple of references too:
https://www.icd.uni-stuttgart.de/tea...-bent-plywood/
https://materialdistrict.com/article/sewing-wood/

The video above that show a 201 sewing plywood is mostly a statement about what the machine is able to do with sufficient driving punching power. The video channel show other examples too. I think the Singer 15 can be modified to sew plywood or other heavy materials as well. But the potted motor will be insufficient for that.

Until I see some new data, I stick to my the statement about the potted motor is weaker than other typical sewing machine motors. I guess that some people are convinced by dreams and others by figures and tests.

A lot of people love their Singer 15-91, and this machine can most likely do more heavy stuff that most domestic machines in general. The newer domestic plastic machines are no match to the good vintage machines.
Gymnast2 is offline  
Old 07-07-2020, 08:11 AM
  #9  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Ontario
Posts: 230
Default

Makes no sense to me in using one of these type of machines for this kind of purpose. Was never designed for that kind of work at all is my point. Anyone serious in this kind of work would never look at this kind of machine for that kind of work in my opinion. Would never produce the same level of finish and provide nothing but headaches. Interesting post, just seems pointless in the real world.
Hooligan is offline  
Old 07-07-2020, 08:41 AM
  #10  
Super Member
Thread Starter
 
leonf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: near Topeka kansas
Posts: 4,040
Default

Could just swap a motor, stand back and see what breaks first.

https://www.quiltingboard.com/member...98-600603.html
leonf is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


FREE Quilting Newsletter


SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.