Can this machine be rescued?
06-21-2013, 09:46 AM
#121
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 15,507
Originally Posted by grant15clone
Thank you Steve. I have never used ATF on my machines and felt that I could not comment on what I did not know about first hand. I was waiting for a comment on this.
There was a comment on QB recently about using CLR to remove rust and was waiting for comments on that as well as other things used and never found out the result. I think a tips and tricks thread might be in order as well as a Do and DON'T to a machine might be good too. I have seen a lot of mistakes made and I for one would like everyone to have good results. You, Joe, Miriam the Cathy's, Glen, and so many others that have advice one way or another would be most helpful to everyone I think. I know I could learn from, and have learned, from people here on QB. We all, and others have learned and shared. There should be a place for the do's and dont's. Don't you think? Is there one already for restorations and repair? If so, direct me with a link. If not, let's get one going and have a link to it here. I think it is needed. I have a lot to share and am more than willing. And I know I am not alone.
~G~
There was a comment on QB recently about using CLR to remove rust and was waiting for comments on that as well as other things used and never found out the result. I think a tips and tricks thread might be in order as well as a Do and DON'T to a machine might be good too. I have seen a lot of mistakes made and I for one would like everyone to have good results. You, Joe, Miriam the Cathy's, Glen, and so many others that have advice one way or another would be most helpful to everyone I think. I know I could learn from, and have learned, from people here on QB. We all, and others have learned and shared. There should be a place for the do's and dont's. Don't you think? Is there one already for restorations and repair? If so, direct me with a link. If not, let's get one going and have a link to it here. I think it is needed. I have a lot to share and am more than willing. And I know I am not alone.
~G~
06-21-2013, 10:26 AM
#122
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Lorenzo, CA
Posts: 5,361
Originally Posted by grant15clone
I have never used ATF on my machines and felt that I could not comment on what I did not know about first hand. I was waiting for a comment on this.~G~
It is funny when I see an old machine like that, my mind does the same type of thing that it does when I see a piece of armor that I want to reproduce... It automatically starts building a checklist of activities in order...
I see that Hengsenberg, and my mind went..
1. Sewing machine oil, on a microfiber cloth - Wipe down
2. Oil and Q-Tip - everything that the cloth didn't get
3. Underside - same as above 1 and 2
4. tri-flow EVERYTHING.
5. the HARD PART - Wait 10 minutes..
6. Try movement, gently, Remember every "grinding sound" or "gritty feel" is wear happening!
Repeat as necessary.
I only have two machines which have required more that that.
I will post a few observations on rust and removal in a bit...
06-21-2013, 10:53 AM
#123
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 2,609
I have never used ATF, never found a need for it. I have tried CLR it works but very slow so I stick to Evaprust to remove rust. I like you Steve use sewing machine oil and tri-flow and PB on cranky screws and nut. However I am always on the lookout for something new that works and make the job easier without damage to the machine. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about rust.
06-21-2013, 11:01 AM
#124
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: San Lorenzo, CA
Posts: 5,361
[ATTACH=CONFIG]420344[/ATTACH]
This picture hopefully will illustrate the most common misconception of "rusted solid" machines.
MOST machines are actually rusted in place, rather than rusted solid. Meaning that they have a coating of rust that has formed on the surface which actually bonds the two components which were intended to move. The good news is the same rust also protects the internal contact surfaces. Because most older machines were so well made with very tight tolerances, there is not much room for moisture to penetrate, and the tiny gaps are easy to "rust shut".
What most of my machines need is this "bond" removed so that the parts are free and so that lube can get into the areas needed. One of the most common things folks do is just add oil to the pile of rust. It will work in many cases, but it is best if you can oil it and then using something softer than the metal (toothpick is my fav) try to clean out the oil holes and pick at the rust at the seams where things are supposed to move so it can get out of the way and allow the lube to get in.
This picture hopefully will illustrate the most common misconception of "rusted solid" machines.
MOST machines are actually rusted in place, rather than rusted solid. Meaning that they have a coating of rust that has formed on the surface which actually bonds the two components which were intended to move. The good news is the same rust also protects the internal contact surfaces. Because most older machines were so well made with very tight tolerances, there is not much room for moisture to penetrate, and the tiny gaps are easy to "rust shut".
What most of my machines need is this "bond" removed so that the parts are free and so that lube can get into the areas needed. One of the most common things folks do is just add oil to the pile of rust. It will work in many cases, but it is best if you can oil it and then using something softer than the metal (toothpick is my fav) try to clean out the oil holes and pick at the rust at the seams where things are supposed to move so it can get out of the way and allow the lube to get in.
06-21-2013, 11:34 AM
#125
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,395
So if the regular sewing machine oil loosens only the screw type parts after having had overnight to do the magic, I need to go after the joints, etc with the toothpick?
The base has now soaked in the ATF overnight. (Second night since oiling liberally with regular sewing machine oil.) I'm about to take it out and see if that has helped loosen anything underneath.
The base has now soaked in the ATF overnight. (Second night since oiling liberally with regular sewing machine oil.) I'm about to take it out and see if that has helped loosen anything underneath.
06-21-2013, 12:06 PM
#127
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,395
The parts underneath seem to have loosened up a bit, but still no real movement. Also the little pieces that should slide on the top of the base by the needle hole are not yet moving at all. But that is not vital to operate the machine so I'm not worrying about that at this point.
It seems like the parts that need to be addressed now are in the upper portion of the machine - ie the area in the column and hood by the hand crank and in the needle bar column. The three little "points" that screw in and out at the top of the needle bar column were loosened last night. Not sure what they do, but I'm sure one of them adjusts the pressure on the presser foot. What the other two are for???
I have not attempted any actual taking apart of things, just seeing what will and won't move at this point.
What is the recommended next step?
It seems like the parts that need to be addressed now are in the upper portion of the machine - ie the area in the column and hood by the hand crank and in the needle bar column. The three little "points" that screw in and out at the top of the needle bar column were loosened last night. Not sure what they do, but I'm sure one of them adjusts the pressure on the presser foot. What the other two are for???
I have not attempted any actual taking apart of things, just seeing what will and won't move at this point.
What is the recommended next step?
06-21-2013, 12:11 PM
#128
Super Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,395
The decals on the bed were all but gone already on a good portion of the front. Only the mother of pearl was clearly visible. The ones you can see are actually a bit more visible now.
I have not wiped it down yet, letting gravity do its job on draining off the excess.
I have not wiped it down yet, letting gravity do its job on draining off the excess.
06-21-2013, 02:07 PM
#129
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 862
Originally Posted by mom-6
The parts underneath seem to have loosened up a bit, but still no real movement. Also the little pieces that should slide on the top of the base by the needle hole are not yet moving at all. But that is not vital to operate the machine so I'm not worrying about that at this point.
It seems like the parts that need to be addressed now are in the upper portion of the machine - ie the area in the column and hood by the hand crank and in the needle bar column. The three little "points" that screw in and out at the top of the needle bar column were loosened last night. Not sure what they do, but I'm sure one of them adjusts the pressure on the presser foot. What the other two are for???
I have not attempted any actual taking apart of things, just seeing what will and won't move at this point.
What is the recommended next step?
It seems like the parts that need to be addressed now are in the upper portion of the machine - ie the area in the column and hood by the hand crank and in the needle bar column. The three little "points" that screw in and out at the top of the needle bar column were loosened last night. Not sure what they do, but I'm sure one of them adjusts the pressure on the presser foot. What the other two are for???
I have not attempted any actual taking apart of things, just seeing what will and won't move at this point.
What is the recommended next step?
Best of luck.
~G~
06-21-2013, 02:13 PM
#130
Power Poster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 15,507
Originally Posted by grant15clone
One thing I would strongly recommend is take a lot of pictures before taking anything apart and during the process. It helps when you are putting things back together. I also put parts into plastic containers (clear butter dish type) during disassembly. If I am doing a whole machine it helps a LOT to put component parts in separate containers too. I put upper tension parts in one, bobbin hook parts in another and so on. When you are putting it back together it helps to know if you have parts left over where they go, or at least a general area that they go. It narrows the search area and can eliminate much of your frustration too. It has helped me countless times over the years.
Best of luck.
~G~
Best of luck.
~G~
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