15-91 bobbin issues
 

I had to order a replacement bobbin case for my 15-91 and I am not sure if it that or my machine is giving me trouble. The machine will sew fine for a few stitches, then stop, and the bobbin thread won't come out anymore. So, I cut the thread, open the slide plate, remove bobbin case and the thread is so tight it won't pull out. It was doing fine when I put it in. I have checked to make sure I am threading the bobbin correctly, thread coming over the top, but still it does this. So, is the machine messing up or the bobbin case? It almost seems like the bobbins don't fit properly (I am currently using some metal ones I bought at Hancock Fabrics, not the Dritz brand). Since the case is brand new I did not think it would need to be adjusted. I ordered it from Sew Classic. Also, I have read on QB to use the metal bobbins in these machines, but Sew Classic recommends the plastic...should I go w/those since I ordered the case from there also?

I hope my description makes some sense. Thanks for any help,
Jp

The metal bobbins Sew-Classic sells are fine with one proviso. The little notch that engages the little tab to spin the bobbin is sometimes not big enough. The plastic ones are. However I have some of the new bobbins from S-C and do use them in my 15-91 with good success.

The bobbins from the box stores are hit or miss in quality. Before declaring the bobbin case at fault, try some different bobbins.

Also remember when you put a full bobbin in the case it should turn clockwise when you pull on the thread.
And it doesn't hurt to check the tension on the case. Just because it's new does not mean it's correctly adjusted.

Joe

First of all, I gotta say I love my 15's. I use both metal bobbins as well as the plastic ones in my machines with no problems. I also have ordered from sew classic and never any issues with their products. Let's see what others post on this. I would be interested in the response.
Also, have you changed your needle? Sometimes that can be the answer. Also, check your tension on the case.

Try pulling out several feet of thread slowly from the bobbin case, and see if you can find where it gets tight. Then put it in the machine and do the same thing - running it through the needle hole.

Then try giving it a quick pull and see if you can get it to lock up.

I have run into the problem when the bobbins didn't fit quite right - they were a bit loose and if the machine gave a quicker jerk, the bobbin would spin inside the case and then the thread would wrap around and then get underneath itself -and then tighten up and snap.

Also - check how you are winding the thread on the bobbin. I've run into a lot of bobbins (coming with old machines) that were wound with poor tension, and then the thread gets underneath lower levels and will not pull off correctly - and gets tight and breaks. I've had some so bad I had to cut the threads off the bobbin.

Always makes me wonder if some machines got relegated to the closet because the owner didn't know how to wind a bobbin and kept breaking thread.

Thank you to everyone for the replies. I will check the tension. I just took for granted it would be correct since it was new. I am using a new needle, and I think I have the bobbin in the case correctly. I think what Cathy described is what is happening...the bobbin not fitting quite right. So, how do I know if I have a good fit?

The little bit that I have used this machine I have liked, but these small issues are frustrating me.

Do any of you sew w/the knee lever? I find it to be very tricky, maybe once I get use to it I will like it. It seems that is how my mom always used this machine. Guess it's like treadling, just gotta practice.

BYT, I do not feel it is a quality issue w/the SC part, I have ordered several things from her w/no complaints, just wanted to mention that part to figure out where my problem might be, in the event there is a bobbin/bobbin case compatibility issue.

Thanks,
Jp

Jp,

I have several cabinet machines with the knee bar controller. I don't particularly care for them. There is always a lot of slack in the linkage and that combined with the slack in the controller button makes smooth control of the machine iffy. I've taken to removing the controller from the bracket and using it as a foot controller.

Joe

You can't take it for granted that the bobbin case tension is correct because it's new. It could easily be too loose or tight and you should check that.

Pop the Bobbin out of the Bobbin Case and check for a wrap or two around the center tube in the Bobbin Case.

Sometimes, when a Bobbin is wound with a large quantity of thread, a loop or two of thread can hop outside of the Bobbin and down around the center tube. When the slack in the loop gets used, the half-hitch around the tube puts a stop to things.

CD in Oklahoma

I feel like I have to comment on your problem. My DGS's machine is a 201 but the problem sounds exactly the same. The machine he found had the bobbin case but no bobbins. He bought bobbins at local sewing shop and the bobbins were winding up the thread and then, the thread was breaking. The bobbins were so tight in the bobbin area (no case on a 201) that they would get stuck. One of the bobbins even came apart when he tried to take it out.

So, back to the store we went... told them of the problem ... ask if they had given him the wrong bobbins. We showed them the bobbin that came apart and they were....'we've never seen that happen before'. They showed us the packages and we decided to pass them up and go to Hancock's fabrics. We bought a different brand.... same problem. When I got back home (800 miles away) I had purchased a machine in a cabinet that had .... would you believe... some 201 bobbins in it. So, I sent them to my DGS and he tried them. Perfect fit..... never a problem. So he used a micrometer to measure the diameter of the bobbins. Sure enough, the new bobbins were just slightly larger. So when the bobbin would spin......motion creates a tiny expansion..... bobbins get stuck and almost fuse in the bobbin area.

Ever since that experience I'll never buy bobbins at the box stores or LQSs. I'll only buy bobbins from Jenny at sew-classic. I never have any problems with hers. And, most of the time, I find bobbins at auctions or estate sales..... they get separated from their machines somehow.

I just thought of another problem I had with bobbin thread breaking. I bought a 15-91 that didn't have a cord so I didn't get a chance to try out the machine. I figured I could get a cord and still not spend much since it was an auction, I bid $10 and got it. Anyway, when the cord came, I threaded it up and started sewing. It would stitch a few stitches and break the thread. I opened up the slide plate and watched as the thread looped around the case. The little finger piece that you grab to remove the bobbin case was bent a little. The thread was catching on that finger piece and getting stuck..... then the thread would break. I thought, Oh no..... bobbin cases are expensive. But the case for the 15-91 was about $5.00.... yeah! Now, that machine sews like a dream..... just needed a new cord and a new case. I have a total of $25-30 in her... not bad.

Thanks for all the replies. I am going to try the suggestions mentioned here...and order some new bobbins from SC. Hopefully I will resolve the problem...if not I'll be back!

Thanks
Jp

Joe,
I am confused...the manual says the thread should come off the top of the bobbin right to left. When I put it in the case that way then pull the thread it turns the bobbin counter clockwise, right???

Also, how do I know if the bobbin is "the right fit"? I tried a plastic bobbin that I have for another machine and it seems too small, but the metal one does not seem to work either. I am in the process of ordering bobbins from SC so I hope that helps my issues.

Thanks,
Jp

I purchased the plastic bobbins recommended by Sew Classic. They fit well, but I cannot get them to wind correctly. The little notch that holds the bobbin onto the winder is not deep enough and keeps slipping out. The metal bobbins I ordered from SC about a year ago work great. I am wondering why she now recommends the plastic ones?

minibarn,

I will re-read the manual on the bobbin issue. I do know I put my bobbin in the 15-91 case the same way I do all the other machines that use class 15 bobbins and it works well.

Bobbin fit = it fits in the case, doesn't bind, and the thread rolls off it smoothly.

Not being sarcastic cos there is soooo much variation between one group of bobbins and the next. If it fits and works I use it.

Check the little peg that drives the bobbin. It could be worn.

Joe

Ugh, I just ordered the plastic, hope I don't have that trouble too. I have two different metal ones I bought from Hancocks, and one doesn't even fit on the bobbin winder! The others seem to work on the winder and the case, but still my original issue, like the thread is too loose and wraps around itself.

Jp

For bobbin fit...when I put the bobbin in, will it only stay in the case when I lift the little tab? Or does a well fitting bobbin stay in even when the tab is down? (make sense?) As I try to adjust the tension, the bobbin falls out so it is hard to know if I am getting the tension right or not.

Sorry, but what little peg are you talking about? Is it the one in the bobbin race? And how do I know if it is worn? Please forgive the ignorant :), I try to learn about the different parts of these machines, but it seems everyday I find there is one more!

Thanks for the help,
Jenna

Jenna,

There is a little tab on the end of the little bar the lever moves when you open it that rests against the bobbin.
If the lever isn't opened the tab does not touch the bobbin and it will fall out. I just tilt the bobbin case with the face up so the bobbin doesn't fall out when I adjust them.

The little peg is on the bobbin winder. It engages the notch on the inner edge of the bobbins shaft to spin it. They can wear or get broken.

Joe

Joe,

Many class 15 machine don't care which way the bobbin unwinds, but many will not sew well if the bobbin is put in the case the wrong direction. The correct direction of unwinding helps prevent backlash/back-spinning of the bobbin as it gets emptier and lighter weight.

The easiest way to figure the correct direction is to remember that the thread has to reverse direction as it leaves the bobbin and goes under the bobbin case tension spring. Or visually it makes a 'V' path. Put a threaded bobbin in the case and thread it both ways, you will see the path differences.

The 15-90 series (11:00 finger as viewed from the solid side) of cases thread so the the bobbin is unwinding counterclockwise. The other series (1:00 finger) unwind with the bobbin spinning clockwise.

Here are a few pictures of the case differences.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]463799[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]463800[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]463801[/ATTACH]

I hope this helps,
Cathy

Ahhhh, I see said the blind man. So the 15-91 is opposite of the others when it comes to the bobbin. I'll do my best to remember that.

Joe

Joe,
And the hook is also the opposite.

Cathy

Thanks for clarifying. The peg seems to be in good shape. I tried the bobbins I have again and still have issues so I guess I will just wait for the SC bobbins and see what goes.

Jenna

Thank you Cathy for the pics and explaining the V of the thread. I am at least loading the bobbin correctly in the case!

Jenna

Jenna,

You're welcome. I'm glad I could help.

Cathy

Well ... fudge! I did check the 15-91 manual and sure enough the bobbin loads opposite what I was doing. Duhhh.... I'll bet I have to reset the bobbin tension when I put it in right the next time. Sigh ..........

Joe

Hey Joe, at least it worked! Wonder if mine will work better that way!!!

Jenna

I hope so. Now that I know better mine probably won't work at all if I put 'em in wrong. :)

Joe

I have a question about the class 15 bobbin cases for the zig zag machines.
There are 2 different part numbers for them, one for the side loading machines and one for the front loading, but I can't see a difference in the cases at all... of course the price is different on the 2, which implies that there is some difference....


As for the bobbins - there are a couple of different qualities of bobbins. I have about 5 different choices in the spreadsheet for my supplier, all of course with different costs. MOST places, Hancocks, Joann and even a lot of the the LSM places will stock the cheaper quality because (they think) people won't pay for the "better" cost, especially when they apply their 200 - 500% markup.

The newer machines don't care as much about the quality control on the bobbins. I have never had trouble buying the higher quality ones, even in vintage machines. The part number for the metal 15 bobbins I ordered is: 2518-A. I haven't had to order class 66 bobbins from my supplier because i have 3 parts organizer drawers of them from other machines. :)

Tammi,

One of the differences in the class 15 bobbin cases is the position and length of the slot. The needle at its lowest has it's the tip in that slot. If you use a case made for a side load straight stitch machine in a zig zag machine the needle will hit the case.

The width of the zig zag is the other differences. Wider zig zag stitches need a wider slot in the bobbin case.

Cathy

Thanks Cathy! How the heck did I miss that? So am I right then in thinking that a BCase made for the ZZ machines would be fine in the SS machines? (Provided of course everything else is the same - i.e. it has the finger at 1 o'clock, etc.) I must have been very lucky the couple of times I've had to order the case for a machine, or else I managed to order the right one each time. The ZZ machines I'd been thinking of that I thought were side load are ones that have the whole hook move side to side, so the slot could be SS sized, yes?

THe ZZ width must be why I have 3 different sized slots on the BCases here.

I knew about the tip of the needle. I learned that when trying to take a BC out when a machine was thread jammed with the needle in the down position. ;) Scissors, thread cutter and a lot of muttering to the rescue.

Tammi,

I usually buy from my supplier the 11mm wide width ZZ bobbin case. I think it is #JO1313Z. It's listed as high quality.

Yes, the side loaders don't need the wide slot.

Cathy

The ones I ordered for stock were the JO1313 and the JO1313ZW, I've used one of the JO1313ZW. I'm sure I remember using it in a side loading machine and both of the JO1313 are still here. Or else I stole one from a front load and put it in a side load and replaced that one into a front load. I must have been lucky in that I didn't try to go the other way. :)

Tammi,

The jo1313, JO1313z and JO1313ZW all will work in the side load.

The JO1313 is for the side loaders (and not the front loaders), as it has the short slot. The Jo1313ZW is the same as the JO1313Z (that I order) except it has the tip of the lever bent slightly outward.

Cathy

Holy Cow! Where were you when I was trying to puzzle that out just based on part #s? Thanks so much for that. :)

I was right here (rebuilding an old Necchi motor which was being a royal pain in the patooty).
Just email me (PM first for my email address).

Cathy

I ordered the cases about 16 months ago. But I will definitely PM next time I just can't figure it out, since I now have a couple of cases sitting around that I may never use because I didn't ask. ;)

Oh! And to MiniBarn... uh... sorry for the hijacked thread. :(

That's OK, we all still learn stuff!

JP