206x13 needles
 

I need to order some needles for my "new to me" singer 306w. I see that allbrands lists that an organ 24x1 is almost identical and can be used with a slight timing adjustment. Anyone have any thoughts about using a 24x1. I really only see 12's and 14's for purchase.

I don't think I'd like to change the timing of my machine while the correct 206-13s can still be had.
>Sew-Classic has them: { http://www.shop.sew-classic.com/206x...eedles_c46.htm }
>All Brands sells them by the bulk: { http://www.allbrands.com/search?sear...r_by=relevance } so why alter your machine.

>There is also an industrial needle that can be substituted for the 206-13 with no machine alterations and that's the DBx1. ( AKA: 16x95, 16x231, 16x257, DBx257, 287WH, 1738, 1738A ) When the use of this needle is mentioned the nay sayers get their panties in a wad and usually go ballistic claiming these are the same as a 15x1 and will ruin the bobbin case. They are not, they do work and I'm not the only one who's tested them. And they can be had.

So, stick with the original needles, they are available in a number of places.

Joe

When I got mine a few months ago it came with the user book which said to use these special needles. I did lots of Internet research into the needles and consensus was what Joe said: The correct needles are available so don't fiddle with the machine's timing. Logically, if the machines *could* be made to work effectively with the common 15x1, the machine would have been made like that. Google it, and you'll find a lot of folk telling you of the disaster of changing the timing.
I found that my local shop (sewparts in Melbourne) had a good stock of the correct needles for a cheap price. If they hadn't had them, I'd have ordered a large number from ebay (local shop was way cheaper, incidentally, 60 cents each) rather than modifying a perfectly fine machine.
It just makes no sense to change it from the correct timing.
Mike

Joe - Does the 306 use a round shank needle? I never paid much attention because I have always passed any machines using 206 needles on to a friend of mine.

The 206, 306, 319,etc take a flat shank needle.

Cathy

The timing length on the 24X1 needle is 28.2mm, the timing length on the 206X13 is 33.9mm. These are not the same at all. The timing length is the top of the shank to the top of the eye.
The 206X13 needle is still available, but in limited sizes, so please don't retime the machine.

Cathy

I guess that I am one of those who gets her panties in a wad. (so uncomfortable LOL) But the DBX1 is not the same as a 15x1. The 15x1 is a flat shank and the DBX1 is a round shank. However, the timing length (top of shank to top of the eye) is the same. And most later model machines that take a flat shank will not take a round shank.

The real difference is the length after the point. If a DBX1 needle will fit in the 206 the point may hit the bobbincase, it depends on the whether or not the bobbincase is the open style or not. But one also needs to consider that the longer point may not clear the fabric at the point that the feeddogs start moving or hit the fabric while the feeddog are still moving.This can be a problem with thicker fabrics. One might not think that the slight point difference is a problem, but if you have timed a machine you know that very tiny differences can have a big impact.
Here is a picture that shows the point differences. Note that the DBX1 from different manufacturers will have different length tips.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]411709[/ATTACH]

Cathy

Cathy,

Got your emails and responded. I think I'll post my response here since you said the same thing. Hope you don't mind.




Joe

The 206-13 is a flat shank needle. The DBx1 is a round shank needle. But it's easy to manually orient the needle.
I do this with my Minnesota B and Singer 9W-7 as well.

Joe

Joe,

No. I don't mind at all.
There is a lot of of information and opinions to share.

Cathy

I'm eye balling a 206K. Oh I'm in trouble now. That is the one machine on my Holy Grail list. I've seen a total of three and missed out on all of them. Might just try again. I'm nuts ...... :D


Joe

Don't re-time the machine. You could damage the bobbin case, or worse. Allbrands also sells needles for the Singer 206/306/and 319. All use the same needles. Get those instead. They are sold by the 100 to a box, and that would be good to have some for the future for those machines.

cute cricket ... :)

The biggest problem with those sold by AllBrands is they only have size 12 and 14. I also want to find some 16s and perhaps 18s for heavier stuff ..... like denim. These are for my wife's 314. If I ever get a 206 I'll be scrounging for the heavier needles. :D

Joe

Those Singer 206. 306 and 319 machines are very nice. I am so lucky none of mine came altered. I am so glad to see this needle info! Thanks Cathy and Joe.

So what did you end up purchasing in size 16 and 18 for the heavier materials and how did they work for you?

Nope, I haven't purchased any recently. We do have some size 16 206-13s from before they quit carrying them and they work fine.

Joe

I have a lot of needles that I got in a bulk purchase that are for industrial type machines that I have no use for. I will get the sizes and post them maybe someone on this board can use them. Will post tomorrow on what I have.

great information!

Thanks to all for the information. If you find those larger sizes, Joe, please post the source. Thanks...

There are some 16s on ebay but they come from Australia http://www.ebay.com/itm/Needles-for-...item20c5d85b44 And here's a site that has them (never bought from this site so don't know anything about 'em) http://www.shop.heavysew.com/Needle-...x13-100-16.htm

just a bit spendy aren't they?

No kidding. Prices like these make sewing with these old machines an expensive proposition.

Joe

I think my 319W has been altered because I removed the needle for the first time and it compares to a 15X1 exactly. Also, it looks like the 15X1 that is in Cathy's post above dated 05/04/2013.

I put in a fresh 15X1 today and sewed a few blocks for the next TOGA since I have put this machine into a treadle base. It is sewing fine. There are no marks on the bobbin case. The decorative stitches worked great when I tested them out when I first got my machine.

My question is: Should I get this machine re-timed so that it uses the intended 206X13 needles or continue to enjoy it using the standard and plentiful 15X1's?

(PS: THANKS Cathy! I did a Google looking for "difference between 15X1 and 206X13 and this post came up with your pictures which is EXACTLY what I was looking for!)

If it works...

It ain't broke, so don't fix it. In reality the eye of the 206x13 and the 15x1 is in the same place. The 206x13s are shorter from the eye to the point.

Jeo

My experience has been that the stitch quality of altered machines is extremely poor but recently I've heard of modifying the bobbin case so that a 15x1 needle doesn't hit.
I wouldn't use one that's been had the hook timing altered because of the rubbish stitches. Instead, time it properly and get the bobbin case modified (or buy a modified one) so that 15x1 needles doesn't have a catastrophic collision.

If your stitches are ok chances are someone has modified the bobbin case already. The one I tried was just really bad. Not on top but underneath. Usual tension issues: Loose underneath.

A bit of a revival of the thread, but I too use DBx1 needles in several 306Ks and have never had a problem. I find Organ works great, and they have a complete range. Most importantly, the DBx1s sew a much better stitch than a 15x1

I have several 206, 306, and 319 machines. Love them except for the fact that the needle plate on them are large
and the bobbins are hard to get at. I only use 206x13 needles. Don't like altering the machines. The other needles
could work at low speeds but hit at high speeds. One hit and you have a dull needle at best.

If I need 16 and 18 needles I just use a different type of machine. Like a 15-91. That is the beauty of having a large
collection.

You can't twist words around like that an get away with it ;- ) The zigzaggers for 15s are terrible, why bother with a 306 at all if it's for straight stitch. The 15s were made to take up to size #21, even #22 needles, Singer still made them at the time. They are lovely machines, but not for zigzag. The 130 might be a better machine, it takes 15x1 needles, so Bernina 117. The old Elna Supermatics take large size needles too, regular 15x1. Unless there is a way bout the needle for the 306 and 319 they will always be a bit cumbersome.