Frozen Singer 404
 

I purchased a Singer 404 straight stitch at a thrift store; it was frozen at the time, but I have read that this can be resolved; apparently the donor had not used it for years. I purchased some Tri Flow and put it in the various oil holes. The wheel will now turn a little but the needle remains stationary. I called my local dealer where I purchased my Pfaff QE 4.0 and my Babylock Ellegante and they want around $189 for an "overhaul". I am not mechanically-blessed, so I'm wondering if anyone knows of a person in the Salem, OR area who might tinker with these beautiful vintage machines; it seems the dealers in modern machines want the same price for oiling, etc., vintage machines as they do for the fixing the complexities of the computerized machines - no exceptions. The outside of this machine has not a scratch on it, and everything is there - the cord and original foot feed, except the bobbin itself. Would appreciate your advice on what to do. I looked at Craig's List for a repair service and all I got were the listings for the major dealers around here. Thanks!

Shirley, yesterday I read a thread on a 401 that was locked up. Fabulous info on getting it going. I don't imagine that the 404 is all the different. Make some tea and take a looksee at http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...e-t216956.html

It's a solidly built machine and worth a bit of effort. Have you had the needle and bobbin plate off, and investigated around the feed dogs and under the bobbin case? Check (double and tripple) for threads, bits of a broken needle, etc. I think you need to unscrew a few screws to get the top off the machine. Keep on oiling, when something is stuck, it often takes a bit of patience and persistance to get it loose again. Tentative applications of oil a few times a day, wiggeling the hand wheel a bit, often get's it going. I can only give you the basic routine unfortnately, maybe you all onto it, but as said, often it's a case of keeping it up for a few days until it frees up.

Agree with the suggestions. I am the one who started that thread. It was my early venture into vintage machines. All the help I got was great and I did get it functional. It took time and patience and some products. I am not mechanically inclined at all but I was patient. Good luck. I'm hoping you can do it yourself!!

Thank you all so much! I'll try the multiple oilings and cleaning out underneath the bobbin first to see if that works; and from that point forward, if it's still stuck, will take the steps outlined in Stitchnripper's thread. Wow, what detailed info! You guys are the best! I'll let you know what happens.

It is going to come unstuck the last place you oil... $189???

I have worked on many vintage machines and got them going, but am not close to you. Do not use Tri Flo, it is basically 3 in one oil, and that is the problem with a lot of these old machined. It turns to shellac over the years. Always use a good sewing machine oil (Singer). Keep oiling and keep trying to move, some times it takes a few days. But get rid of the Tri Flo. Back in the day they used the 3 in one, as it was handy, and they grabbed it from their husbands instead of getting sewing machine oil!

I would be very careful taking my vintage machine in for repair. I had a great FW and took it to a Singer dealer who said they specialized in FW repair. He took my bobbin apart and said there was something wrong with it and said his distributor could only sell me a new one for $89. I took it to a guy who used to be on this board and he repaired it for $15. The Singer guy returned my bobbin in pieces, didn't even put it together, what a joke !

I cannot agree with you about Tri-Flow being 3-in-one oil, but do agree that the use of 3-in-1 creates the problems you quoted. I ordered my tri-flow from Sew-Classic, and wouldn't do without it.

Keep applying oil every once on a while, do something else come back and do it again. I have purchased 6 machines that were frozen and after being patient for a few days, each of them work.

I had googled it a while back, and can not find it now? But it said they were basically the same thing. Tri flow also has teflon added to it, don't know how good that is for a machine over the years? Sewing machine oil is cheaper, and you can't go wrong with using the product that was meant for sewing machines. JMOHO

I don't know what you read that would say Tri Flow is the same as 3in1 oil, but that is just so wrong. Tri Flow is highly recommended by most vintage sewing machine repair people on all of the 20+boards and groups I belong to. All light weight oils, including sewing machine oil, dissipate over time, and the teflon that Tro Flow has in it does not gunk up and leave a varnish like substance behind like 3in1 or products like WD40 will. The teflon left behind is added protection to prevent wear at metel to metal friction points. The first oiling my machines get is always Tri Flow and I've never had any of them freeze up again or show any signs of gunk left behind. The only place I don't use it is any place that has a wick.

Cari

I WONDER WHAT YOUR BAD EXPERIENCE WITH TRI-FLO WAS LIKE??? Could you describe? I would love to see pictures, too. I've been using T-F for a long time and I have repaired hundreds of old machines. The Teflon eventually wears away at friction points kind of like the old Teflon skillet I pitched. I find I don't need to oil as much. I have tried 3 in 1 oil and WD40 and had pretty sorry results. Tri-flo may well be a combo of three different ingredients. If you go to a car parts store you can buy all kinds of different oil blends and your car will work better on some than others. I talked to an oil expert I could trust once and he suggested to use a thin oil on a sewing machine. He did not know anything about the tri-flo formula. If you are in doubt call an oil lab and see what they suggest. Several years ago I oiled my mom's featherweight with tri-flo and she let the machine set. I recently pulled it out and had no lock up what so ever when I turned the machine. 3 in 1 oil will lock up a machine very quickly.

Haven't we had this conversation???

I have never had any adverse affects of Triflow; I'm not sure what the additives are except for the teflon, but the oil in the small plastic bottle has never showed signs of gumming up or behaving adversely. This oil is added solvents to help dissolve and clean out gummed up parts; maybe that's why this has such a good effect on older machines.

I have to admit, I have used all kinds of spray can oils, including WD40 and never had any major problems; they are all very similar; dissolve and flush out old grime rather well. What they don't to is lubricate the way thicker oils does, and don't lessen friction like basic sewing machine oil does. They dry up quickly too, leave parts dry. I don't use them that much anymore; maybe in a case of very grimey internals in machine, mostly a good oil will do the same job given a bit more time.

I like Finish Line Ceramic wet lube too; it has to be the transparent bottle with the gold cap, the others are way too thick, with additves to make them stand up to harsh out door conditions. From the info I have Finish Line Ceramic Wet Lube is a synthetic oil of petroleum origin. It's a pure oil, very light flowing, with added (accoring to description) nano particle teflon and boron nitride. It has superb specs when it comes to penetration and reducing friction and works very well on sewing machines. Left long enough to dry up, it will not gum up parts more than the basic sewing machine oil; which meas very little problems decades down the road.

Most oils are added various stustances to increase perfomance under specific conditions, few of these apply to sewing machines, and very few oils actually offer any improvement on the basic sewing machine oil. I think Triflow and Finish Line Ceramic Wet Lube does, like mentioned, they have very good specs compared to other oils, and the additives they have work well for sewing machines. My 201 runs a few notches moother with Finish Line Ceramic oil, I think it's the teflon :- )

Miriam, NO I have not had this conversation with you before. I also said it was JMOHO, that you should use the product that is made for what ever you are working on. Like in this case, sewing machine oil for a sewing machine. I have NEVER used Tri Flo, because of what I had read. That was a while back. If you like it and want to spend the extra money, then go for it. But again JMOHO, I will stick with good old sewing machine oil, as it has never failed me yet.
I was trying to find where I read this, and found this interesting, this is a forum where guy's fly (toy,for lack of better description) planes, and helicopters, and one guy posted this....a few guys where i fly use oil made for home sewing machines..a lot of oil for a small price, and you can pick up a bottle at WalMart Again it is what you want to spend your money on.

Miriam, I got a chuckle when I read this -- so true! Murphy's Law is always at work in my world, LOL! Yep, $189, the gal said that was what they charged for a "full overhaul".

I wonder if a penetrating oil would help to get things loosened up; it usually will work on things that are 'frozen' or locked up. Then give it a good final oiling with the sewing machine oil. Just a thought.

yes all of that is mentioned in the post referenced above "shall I try and get his machine". I used lots of things.

Tri-Flo IS a penetrating oil.

I agree absolutely! I got a vintage Montgomery ward machine with cams that was locked up so bad the lady told I could have it for free because it was her aunts and hadn't been used in years. I took it home and oiled the heck out of it and cleaned it and it runs like a top. Persistence pays off.

I have a few machines with a wick. What is the reason you do not use Tri Flow in a wick area? I have been using it on all my machines, but in all I have not read about that specific point. I am eager to learn any useful tips to improve my maintenance procedures. Thanks.

Cathy

There's so much daft info on lubricants, not helped by the ingredients the makers rather keep a secret. You can actually buy this stuff, and it's a pure mineral oil much like s*wing m*chine oil LOL

http://www.thefootdown.com/blog/imag...o-5-review.jpg

It's just a matter of personal preference for me. Other people use it in wicking areas with(so far) no problems. Ever since Tri Flow came on the sewing machine scene years ago, the one area of controversy has been whether or not the teflon can possibly prevent the oil from wicking like it's supposed to. No one has been able to prove or disprove it. So I don't use it in an oil hole that has a wick. I'll skip past the wick and oil the intended spot directly, and since I only use Tri Fow for initial oilings after a cleaning, I still get the benefit of the teflon without the possible years down the road issue that may or may not happen. Just my personal preference.

Cari

Cari,
Thanks so much for the explanation. It had crossed my mind about oiling directly, but I have never tried that way. I will need to examine my machines more closely and maybe try it your way.
Cathy

A general rule of thumb to unfreeze a sewing machine is to find a spot where the mechanism moves and follow it to where it doesn't move. Then apply oil, maybe a little pressure, maybe some heat from a hair dryer. Eventually, you'll get everything moving again.

I'm in the "I use Tri-flow" camp. One person, somewhere, wrote that you shouldn't use it on sewing machines, versus all the people who use it and love it. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Tate

I love old machines. I have 33. I usually clean and oil generously everywhere. Have you taken the faceplate off and let oil run down the needle holder bar and the bar that holds the feet? I can't even call their proper names now. [ Been in the hospital with a dead gall bladder]. Clean everywhere. Joe tells everyone to oil anything that moves. Grin