Help Needed with Minnesota Model A Bobbin Winder and Tension Nut
 

Hi everyone, I'm new here so let me know if I'm messing this up in some way. I recently got my hands on a Minnesota l model A treadle sewing machine. For the most part, it seems to run great but there are two issues. The bobbin winder works except for that the teeth of the gear and bolt don't mesh, so the gear doesn't engage when the belt runs.
On top of that, loosening the friction nut doesn't disengage the machine. What I mean is that when the friction nut is turned to the loose setting, the whole machine still engages and the needle still goes up and down. I know this isn't supposed to be the case. From what I can gather the inside might be gummed up, but I don't know how to get in there to clean it, or even if I should try! The serial number is D3541666 if that helps!
I'm still trying to figure out how on earth to attach Pictures and videos but it's not working atm. So, I'll add them in replies as soon as I can manage. Thank you all in advance.

Welcome. Have you oiled the machine and bobbin winder? Do you have a manual for your machine? I have had machines that would continue to move the needle, after loosening the clutch knob to wind bobbins. Sometimes it is because it has gummed oil and doesn't work properly. If I put a little bit of upward pressure on the take-up lever when it starts, it will stop and wind the bobbin properly. There are other times that doesn't work and there is more cleaning and oiling to be done.

According to http://ismacs.net/sears/sears.html "For instance, there were five major versions of the Minnesota Model A" (emphasis by me). I believe you have a Davis, which was made about 1910. Hopefully, Jon will see this and verify if your machine uses a different system of needle. A picture would help identify.

We like pictures. In order to post pictures on Quilting Board, you will probably need to reduce or compress the picture to a file size that is smaller than 2MB. How to post images can be found at https://www.quiltingboard.com/attach...020-01-17-.pdf
Don't forget to scroll over to the far right to find and click on the "Upload" button.

I have found that only the big red "Reply" button or "Quote" work to give me the paper clip icon to work for adding pictures.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.
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I've been using this manual. I'm aware that there were a bunch of different versions of the Model A, but this one's pictures look similar enough and nothing seems to be missing. According to the serial number and this website, I think it was produced in 1919, so nearer to the end of Davis manufacturing for Sears and Roebuck. As for needles, a modern needle seems to fit in perfectly, although I would love to be corrected on this. As soon as I got the machine I oiled every spot as indicated in the manual and let it sit for a day. Putting upward pressure on the take-up lever doesn't seem to help. I'm still working on the pictures, unfortunately, it's mostly an issue on my end and something or another about security tokens.
Either way, I wanted to get this reply in in case it helps and say thanks for your response!

Pictures
 

Alright, I've compressed my jpegs, so this should work. I'm working on making a couple of gifs so I can show the bobbin winder not engaging, but I hope this helps.
Attachment 627848Attachment 627849Attachment 627850Attachment 627851

That looks like the right manual. I see what you mean. I had a 27 that the gears had rusted together and after derusting, that area didn't want to mesh like it should. It seems like I could turn it so that it would mesh with the unrusted area. I don't remember if there was an adjustment to get it closer, or if the spring was what positioned the gears to mesh together. If I remember correctly, I took it apart and put back together several times to even come close to working correctly.

As far as preventing the needle from moving, I'm thinking that there is some dried oil in the clutch knob (friction nut) and hand wheel. I would probably take it apart and clean and oil.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

Thanks you Saltquveen for the great pictures. And welcome aboard.

" even if I should try!"

Yes, you should try. There is a stop screw in the clutch knob, loosen it, but be careful if you take it out all the way, they get lost easily. The clutch knob should spin off and there will be a washer underneath with at least one tang on it; note how it is positioned so you put it back on the same way. The hand wheel should spin freely on the shaft, yours likely isn't at all. Remove the hand wheel from the shaft, you may need some force to remove it. clean thoroughly the inside of the hand wheel which was on the shaft and the shaft itself. Most people use only sewing machine oil to clean it. On these parts I have taken very fine grit sandpaper, at least 220, and cleaned the shaft and the inside of the hand wheel. When reassembling oil the shaft first and then see if the hand wheel spins before any other reassembly.

Just a quick note, before I dash off to work. There is a picture of a hand wheel that I believe is like yours and as Joe said "there will be a washer underneath with at least one tang on it." It looks like it only has the one. I usually clean out the inside of hand wheels and the shaft with 0000 steel wool and usually metal polish, being careful not to get any on the painted portions of the machine. Take lots of pictures, if you should decide to try. You might want to oil with Tri-Flow in the joints and let it set overnight. It seem to work well to loosen things up.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.
Not affiliated with off-site link(s)

Regarding your bobbin winder not engaging, I was just working on Singer 27 with the same problem. I ended up taking off the large gear and cleaning out all the surfaces underneath. There was what I will call a spring washer underneath which I turned over, put it back together, and it started working again. Something to consider trying.

I just wanna give a quick update. Thank you to everyone. I took apart the bobbin winder, put it back together and it works! It looks like it has something to do with two different screws and I'll just have to keep an eye on them. I haven't gotten around to the wheel yet, but I'll ask more questions I'm sure!
just for clarification, the needle has no issue going up and down, I can't disengage it. The manual, and other resources warn against running the machine when winding the bobbin and such, but she does run! I honestly think its a matter of getting in there and cleaning her up.
again thanks for all the help!

The needle should not move when you disengage the clutch knob. You shouldn't run the machine without cloth between the presser foot and feed dogs. Try what I suggest above except listen to Janey and use 0000 steel wool instead of sandpaper.

Great!!https://cdn.quiltingboard.com/images/smilies/smile.png

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

I forgot to mention, you will want to oil all the moving, metal-on-metal parts on the bobbin winder, maybe not as heavily as the machine.

I removed the tension nut as Joe described. There was indeed a washer with one tang. When I took this washer off it looked like this Attachment 627952.
This is a part of the handwheel, or at least seems to be, at least there's no part that can be pulled off. Attachment 627955The Handwheel spins freely, but not in any shaft. It can't be pulled out of any shaft. If there's any place it could be pulled out there are three of these screws.Attachment 627954Attachment 627953 I haven't tried very hard with these screws, but they are stuck in place and seem to be made of soft metal, as even my feeble attempts dented them a little. I don't know how I'd get these out.
As for the presser foot, the presser foot and needle bar are both currently off of the post right now, so no worries for the feed dogs!

From what I've read and believe is that the best screwdrivers for these vintage machines would be the correct size of hollow ground screwdrivers.

I can't tell if the silver collar is separate from the hand wheel or not. It almost appears that it would be. I would put some oil (Tri-Flow) in the hole on the machine by the screw and if there is a separation between the silver part and hand wheel. Let set overnight, try again with a better screwdriver, so it doesn't tear it up any more. If you can clean out the slot with a toothpick or skewer or something like that, it would probably help.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

I have a little info I can add. D3541666 was made late 1909 to early 1910. The website dating info is not correct for this model. Sears referred to the model as Minnesota A9 on their needle packs but for conversation Davis New Minnesota A would be the best description. The A9 uses a 2" Davis long needle which is not standard so you'll have to find some on ebay or use a modern substitute needle called MTx190 or 190R. The A10 model is identical but used standard 15x1 rather than Davis long. Have fun.

Jon

The silver collar does indeed appear to be separate. I'm now on the hunt for a hollow ground screwdriver. I plan on oiling that whole area up. Thanks for the information!

Oh wow! That's interesting. I tried a standard 15x1 needle on it and it seemed to fit perfectly. I didn't thread everything and just ran some paper through it to see if it stitched, so I could be wrong, but it might be the A10, but I'll get my hands on other needles and see if they fit better. Would there be any way to definitively say which needle fits? Sorry if these are basic questions but I really appreciate the answers.

The 15x1 and the Davis Long have the same shank size. The Davis Long is 11.7mm longer - total length than the 15x1 and the Davis Long measurement from top to eye is 9.3mm longer than the 15x1.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odk...edles&_sacat=0

So, yes, the 15x1 would fit, but it would not be able to pick up the bobbin thread.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.
Not affiliated with off-site link(s)

I was looking for something else and happened to see this old thread. << link I didn't realize that the MTx190 is a round shank. It will work, but it one needs to install it so the grove is the same way that the flat shank does. I used to think how difficult it would be to use a round shank needle and get it lined up correctly. I have a machine that takes round needles, so I had to figure it out. I used a needle threader in the eye with the groove on the correct side and found out that it was easier than I thought it would be.

Janey - Neat people never make the exciting discoveries I do.

So I'll have to see which needle catches the bobbin thread. Hmm. As for shank shape, I'll look for flat shank needles but keep this in mind. I should be able to work on it some more this week so I'll definitely post updates.