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Here is a needle question I've been mulling over for a bit
The Singer 9W-7 requires a 127x1 needle. A flat shank needle with one long groove opposite the flat and no shank, just a small 1/4" grooved area at the eye. Obsolete, hard to find, expensive when you do find them.
They fit in the machine flat to the left, and thread right to left. The substitute needle is the industrial MY1014B, a round shank needle with two thread grooves. One long one up to the shank on the side opposite the scarf and a shorter one up nearly to the shank on the scarf side. Now the Schmetz MY1014Bs that I have come with a huge scarf. The Singer 127x1 needles have either no scarf or a small one. The Organ MY1014B needles have a much smaller scarf than the Schmetz. With me so far ......? OK, I was sewing with my 9W-7 making a quilted cover for the machine. The needle I was using was a Schmetz MY1014B, size 14. The thread I was using was C&C Machine Quilting and Crafts thread in the 1,200 yd cross wound spool. To piece the cover I used white which came in Size #50 or 30 wt. I honestly cannot tell the difference between these thread sizes if there is any. I had the thread mounted on the machine and off the machine on a large spool holder and it made no difference with feeding. When I was finished piecing the top I had to piece the fleece for the skirt. I use the same C&C thread in blue mounted off the machine on the large spool holder. Still with me .............? I had severe thread breakage with the Schmetz size 14 needle and the blue C&C Machine Quilting and Crafts thread. It also tangled while winding the bobbin twice so bad I had to cut the thread off of the bobbins. But that was corrected by winding the bobbin with the Sidewinder. My wife said check the needle. I did, needle was good. Problem did not stop. I changed thread to C&C (we have a ton of the stuff, might as well use it) All Purpose in the 400 yd spool. This thread was visibly finer than the other thread and there was no problem with breakage at all. Fleece piecing done I switched to a variegated orange / white thread on a Maxi-Lock 3,000 yd spool. The size is Tex-27 what ever that is. I started quilting. My top is pieced from various cotton scraps. The bottom, fleece. Within the first few stitches I started having thread breakage again. With my frustration level at critical over load I used a few not so well chosen expletives that got my wife's attention. She said check the needle again. I took it out again, used the jewelers loop and that needle is just fine. She said, try a different needle anyway. OK, so I dug into my very limited supply of needles and grabbed an original Singer marked 127-1 needle and put it in. Since then not one single thread breakage. Now, I'm finally getting to the meat of this post. The needles I have for this machine are: Simanco: 127x1 size 18 Singer: 127x1 size 16 GY Schmetz: MY 1014B size 14 Organ: MY1014B size 14 Schmetz: MY1014B size 12 The 127 needle I put in was a size 16, the MY1014B that came out was size 14. I've said all that to ask this ....... 1: Did the Schmetz needle having a large scarf, when the originals did not, cause or contribute to the breakage? 2: On a needle such as the Schmetz and Organ that have two long grooves and a scarf, which way do you orient the needle to be most like the original that has one long groove and no scarf? 3: Was the thread breakage simply because the thread I was using was too big for the size 14 needle? I hope this makes sense and wasn't too overly complicated. I am curious about this and trying to learn. Especially on how to orient the MY1014 needles. (I have several machines that use substitute needles.) I can't take pics of these needles cos my camera, as good as it is, just don't have enough Macro to do it. Joe |
Hi Joe,
You hit on the limitation of the MY1014 needle in that the largest needle size available is 14. Whether this needle in a size 16 or 18 would have worked like the original 127x1 is unknown. Your needle orientation is correct, scarf to the left. I noticed a non groove "island" above the scarf in my Organ sz 14 so that the thread will form a loop. Why the needle is designed with the grooves on both sides is puzzling, though it must have something to do with the industrial machine it was designed for. My feeling that the solution to overcome the limitations of the MY1014 needle other than using 127x1 or a different machine would be to search for a more suitable replacement needle. I often see the packs of Simanco industrial needles selling for $5 per 100 for some ancient industrial of days gone by. Perhaps one of these sizes will be "goodenough" though this is not very helpful for today. Jon |
Jon,
Organ does go as high as size 18 on the MY1014B's. Go to the Organ site, Product Info "User Brochures" { http://www.organ-needles.com/english...t/download.php } and download the batch download at the top. Then on page 12 it shows the MY1014B as SM x 1014B and goes to size 18. I have looked and haven't found any sources that actual carry them. If I can (when I do) I'm planning on ordering a 100 pack of every size 14 and above. Just need to find a source that stocks all the needle sizes. Or will order them. Scarf to the left, OK, I'll remember that. I'm going to do a test of the Schmetz vs the Organ needles since they have different size scarfs. Joe |
I've not seen them either but hopefully they exist somewhere.
Originally Posted by J Miller
(Post 6729762)
Jon,
Organ does go as high as size 18 on the MY1014B's. Joe |
I know with my Bailey - the discussions about thread breaking are often due to a too small needle - and in those cases they recomend going up to a 16. I use a 14 regularly with mine, which is interesting as I normally use a 10 in my Viking and don't have problems, and I'm using the same thread.
I suppose it's also possible to get a needles with a microscopic burr or sharper spot in the needle eye - but when you look at the mechanics - the same section of thread is going to pass back and forth through the needle eye many, many times before it stays as a stitch in the fabric. For an experiment, you could stick the needle in a vice with the point up, then run a thread through and work it back and forth with some tension in it and see if it breaks on you also. |
A size 50 thread is smaller than a 30 weight. Larger the number smaller the thread, smaller number larger thread. There has to be space for the thread to go through the eye of the needle.
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Originally Posted by Pat M.
(Post 6730601)
A size 50 thread is smaller than a 30 weight. Larger the number smaller the thread, smaller number larger thread. There has to be space for the thread to go through the eye of the needle.
Today, IMO, with everything becoming so “world-wide”, the best solution to the thread size comparison between manufactures is the “Tex” method. Using Tex numbers can go a long way in distinguishing the various thread sizes, regardless of the number of plies thickness, and whether vintage or current production. A person can usually find information today on the internet that can correlate the old numbers with a Tex number to help sort out the differences. Would that help reduce the confusion? CD in Oklahoma |
Originally Posted by Macybaby
(Post 6730350)
I know with my Bailey - the discussions about thread breaking are often due to a too small needle - and in those cases they recomend going up to a 16. I use a 14 regularly with mine, which is interesting as I normally use a 10 in my Viking and don't have problems, and I'm using the same thread.
Here's a basic comparison for Home needles vs the Industrial needles we use in the long arms - As best I can tell, the most common sizes in LA machines seem to be 3.5 and 4.0 - so #16 - #18 sized needles, even for a #40 poly (thinner than many 50WT cottons) I use the equivalent of a #16! On the 4.0 needle, I can practically throw the thread through the eye!!: http://www.schmetzneedles.com/catego...Arm-Needles-27 MR 2.0 = Nm 70 = Size 10 MR 2.5 = Nm 75 = Size 11 MR 3.0 = Nm 90 = Size 14 MR 3.5 = Nm 100 = Size 16 MR 4.0 = Nm 110 = Size 18 MR 5.0 = Nm 130 = Size 21 MR 6.0 = Nm 140 = Size 22
Originally Posted by ThayerRags
(Post 6730757)
It seems like everyone wanted to use their own numbering system, all hoping to become the “standard” for thread size measurements. Well, standards were finally agreed upon.
http://www.superiorthreads.com/video...ght-explained/ I agree with the TEX rating if there is one. For a lot of threads, that's not an option though. |
Tammi - yes, the Viking is my domestic. The Bailey is basically a Janome made into a longer machine - not really "stretched" as they made new longer parts, not cut and lengthened what was there to begin with. It's actually a rather slow machine as far as quilting machines go, but it works for me. I think it may have to do with going in all directions. I've done some FMQ on my domestic Viking, and it really had trouble going directly sideways to the right - not so much any other direction. I didn't have the Bailey back then, but I'm thinking had I switched to a larger needle, I may have not had near the problem with broken thread and skipped stitches. I ended up being careful to turn the quilt so I didn't go that direction. At least it was a lap quilt, so not that hard to do.
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You're right Cathy, it can be direction and speed both. Sorry, I should have said that - I blame jet lag.
I did find I had some thread breakage on my domestic when I FMQd that was resolved with a larger needle. Even some of the purpose built LAs object to certain directions (back and left most often) - I've never had a formal complaint lodged but I have had others tell me about it. I do use a larger needle than strictly needed ( I was thinking more about it, and I -think- it's a 4.0 in her right now - it's what she came with, and I'm roughly 2500mi from her right now so I can't go look. :( You can bet I have an itch to quilt or sew right now something fierce!) though in some cases, so that may be helping me, as you say. |
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