Meet The Queen
 

Very pretty! Curiosity got me and and I did a quick search and found this link - http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedi...sewing-machine. I think it is the same as yours. Enjoy your new machine!

She's GORGEOUS!!

How exacting that you found this example. Caroline's definitely has the same fiddle base.

She really is a Queen of beauty!

Really pretty....never heard of a "Queen" sewing machine!

She's very pretty.

Wow..what a great price and with a cabinet too!!!

Thanks for the link Pinkcastle. I am starting a Word document for all the info that I can find on the Internet regarding the Queen. TIAS has a manual for the machine that I am going to purchase. Hooray. The Queen had a day at the spa yesterday. She has cleaned up so nicely. Will post some more pictures later today.

Lovely! She doesn't even need a crown.

that's a beautiful machine - lucky you to have a DD watching out for you :)

I love your Queen,She will look great after you dress her up :thumbup:

She is a queen! Fiddle base even! Hope she gets up and sewing for you! :)

Great find! Congratulations and I hope you enjoy your new treasure!

I just acquired the same machine as yours! It really is beautiful. I've found the same information on my own as has been posted by the users... I've also purchased the manual and it's coming in the mail. Would you be willing to share the information you've collected? So far all I really know is that it was manufactured by Davis before Davis was purchased by White (~1900) -- and I'm not even sure that's right. I'd love to have a date for it!

Also, as you can see in my pictures at the link below, my bobbin winding assembly is different from yours -- as a matter of fact, I haven't found a single picture of a machine with my same assembly! I wonder if mine was added later, or if it's a more primitive model? I'd love to hear your opinions!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/122824553@N02/

Davis went out of business in the late 1920's. I've not seen any Davis machines with a fiddle base also.

Does the shuttle have a pin in it? that is a very unique and distinctive White design. This does not have any of the distinctive White lines, however I know White made some very different looking machines after they acquired Domestic ( I've not read that they ever acquired Davis). And while early Domestic machines are fiddle base and do look similar, they have an oval needle plate. Davis and White are both rectangular. Another Davis design is to have the belt on the outside of the flywheel, and White is inside.

I love researching older machines - I wouldn't take too much into what "worthpoint" says as they say "not made by Sears" and Sears never made ANY machines - they always had some other company making them for Sears.

BTW - that IS an earlier White style bobbin winder assembly. I've seen that on early White machines and keep getting tempted to buy one with it. This could be early White VS design - and then they went more like the AG Mason when they got involved with that company. So much to try to figure out - and so little documentation to help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Macybaby (Post 6669060)

.... This could be early White VS design - and then they went more like the AG Mason when they got involved with that company.

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I’ve always heard that AG Mason never made any of their own machines. They just sold them.

CD in Oklahoma

Very pretty!

Jp

CD - I've been reading a bit about them, and it seems like they may have made some of their own machines, and then they started making them for others, and at some point they were acquired by another, and basically absorbed, but they still used them as the "name" of the mfg of the machines.

All the White machines that have AG Mason on them are made by White (or for White), but it sounds like there may be some earlier machines that aren't quite the same as the White ones. I think one of the few ways to dig into this will be to start looking at advertisements in the Smithsonian records - but most of them aren't online at this time.

I find it all fascinating - and each time I start looking into something, I find other information. There is a lot of conflicting info - and a lot where it's speculation based on items found, but no one will ever know for sure as the actual records are gone.

Most "history" books I've encountered don't spend much time on the 1900-1930 era machines, but concentrate on the earlier years.

And just when everyone thinks they've got a grip on something - a machine no one has seen before shows up, and it makes everyone wonder . . .

This Queen is one of those - it has a lot of marks for White, but also a lot that are different, and there aren't any other similar models either. So no one knows for sure if this is a machine made by some other MFG using some of White's patents - or a machine made FOR White by another factory as a "test" . Several companies stopped making their own machines (closed their factories) before they stopped doing business all together.

Maybe if I'm still interested in all this when I retire, I'll have fun researching it. Right now I'm just having fun finding out what I can find out - and I know I'm not an authority, but we're just all machine enthusiasts here, and it's ok to have fun guessing and the like. it's not like someone is going to be financially ruined by it. Well, unless they get addicted and spend all their money on vintage machines!

I'm so thrilled to find all of you interested researchers! Perhaps you already know this, but here's some more information I found today.

Here are some photos of other Queens that I was shown:
http://needlebar.org/cm/thumbnails.php?album=327

As you can see, I have the same exact machine as itowcrab (theirs has a slightly later serial number than mine, 28356 - mine is 23311), cabinet and all. So I'm willing to guess that the cabinet is original! If the cabinet is any clue to the maker, I would guess White -- they also have circles in the decoration of the treadle itself.

Also, I got an email from Katie Farmer, of the White Sewing Machine Research Project, that says:
These fiddle base White machines were made from
approximately 1893 through 1920. Yours makes twenty-two that have been reported out of
the 87,168 that had been manufactured by 1920. Unfortunately, we have a very incomplete
dating series at this point. It begins at 1910 with 84,400 and shows that there were many
years with no production. Before 1910, we have only a payment receipt donated by the late
Eleanor Beck dated 14 December 1901 for a Queen with a serial number of 60,740. So you
can see that every report of a fiddle base White is important and that any dated paperwork
is critical. These machines have been reported with the following badge names: Queen, the
most common; Grand Union; Stockman; and Sterling. Your Queen is the third earliest fiddle
base White to have been reported. The sole Sterling is the earliest.


I would also really appreciate anyone's advice on finding a foot for this machine. It appears to screw onto the bottom of the rod (?) as opposed to the back, like on newer machines. I've seen other early Whites with this kind of foot, but I'm afraid of buying one online just to get it in the mail and find it doesn't fit!

Love those decals!

Very nice machine. My first guess was a Domestic made machine but after reading this that doesn't sound right.
Rodney

Is it just me, or does the Queen seem like something of a ripoff of this Singer? The straight lines on the cabinet, the simple treadle, the fiddle base -- it seems like someone was trying to mimic the new design.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X08cQY72YrQ

I bet I've got feet that fit!

Seriously - send me a PM with your address, and I'll send you some White feet. So far I've found all the White made machines take the same feet.

If you want to measure, take a measure from the front of the presser bar (ignore the attachment point) to the needle. If it's about .60-.62" then I bet the feet I have will fit. White has about the longest distance here of all machines. The rest I've measured are .5" or smaller.

Other than the black Johnston box sets, the White VS all came in metal boxes labeled "White" so it's a bit easier to find them. Provided someone didn't mix them up at some point. I've seen plenty of "White" boxes filled with Singer or even WW feet.

Here is the measure I'm talking about. White is over .62, where all the rest are .5 or less (at least of those I measured so far).

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ps4a35d34b.jpg

And this is what the foot looks like off the machine. This is NOT a White, as I couldn't get that one loose - needs more oil.

This is a very common attachment type of the 1890-1930 machines, and most other than Singer used this. But in the end Singer won out - and the US machines all had side clamp feet -which most have some sort like that today.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...psd7f8f9c4.jpg

There are some older feet that fit right on the presser bar. They are an older style foot, and a lot harder to put on and off - and keep lined up correctly. I have several intersting styles of those.

opps - someone touched my SMAD button again LOL!!

Today I oiled up my Queen and ordered White feet on eBay -- unfortunately before I read your generous offer, Cathy! Thank you so much in any case! I did, luckily, order the wider feet that should fit. Fingers crossed. Caroline, it looks like we have the same shuttle, pin and all. I'm still waiting for my manual in the mail, so I haven't been able to figure out how to thread it yet! I tried using a standard needle in her today and found that it was a few mm too short. If I pull the standard needle out just a bit before tightening it in, it works just fine. However, I'll wait on your measurement to go buying any needles!

Measures at 1 3/4". Will have to do some more checking but it may be a Davis Long needle or Boye #10. There is a thread regarding substitutes http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...s-t190315.html.
I am feeling very guilty right now as I have owned my Queen for 2 1/2 years and have not cleaned her up to use. Me Bad!

Is it the typical flat on one side?

The MTx190 that Joe talks about in the other thread, linked earlier, are not flat, but round. I bought some for my Davis and they work great, just have to remember which way to put them in!

Jp

Hi Caroline,

The 1-3/4" needle is a 20x1 (Singer), BB (Free), and Boye #12 (Boye Brand) which is about the most common New old stock needles available. There are many more brands, the Ismacs needle list has 12 suppliers and/or manufacturers each with their own needle "size" for this at one time common needle.

http://ismacs.net/needle_and_shank/p...eedle-list.pdf

You can also try lowering the common 15x1.

I don't know of any readily available modern industrial needles that will take the place of the 20x1 as in the case of the MTx190 for Davis long needles or MY1014 for W&W8,9,D9,& Singer 9W.

Jon

Thanks for all of the info! I tried lowering my standard 15x1 but just couldn't get it to work. I could only lower it a few millimeters before it affected the direction of the needle and kept it from going into the hole in the needleplate. Those few mm are aaaalmost but not quite enough. I ended up ordering the MTx190s - I'll update when I try them out... My fingers are crossed!

Jon,

I have two machines that use the 20x1 needles. I have fits finding them. I have spent hours on the net looking for sources to no avail. Occasionally I can find some on eBay, but usually those are not the size I want.

So, what is good source for this most common New old stock needle? I've actually quit looking cos I can't find a good source.

Joe

It seems in my experience also, that a little leeway exists in where the shuttle carrier is in relation to the needle psn. On some machines I've needed to move them closer, a bit, or even slightly bend the shuttle carrier upwards, or twist it a hair so the point lifts up. This is with the correct needle installed. (missed stitches). Some old manuals talk about adjusting needle height for different materials.

Hi Joe,

In my experience the most commonly found NOS needle is Boye brand though not necessarily the cheapest or best bargain. If you do the ebay thing and have time to hunt, bargains ($1 needle or less) can be found. The Queen is is the #12 wood tube with 3-4 needles and come in a range of needle sizes which may or may not be good. There are also BB needles and 20x1 needles for sale on ebay though are not as commonly found as the Boye's. I'd imagine people dealing in machine parts or old time dealers would have some laying around though I don't know of anyone to recommend and you've probably already tried this approach.


Jon

She is a beauty, and still the only Queen I have had the pleasure to meet.
Until today.
Today, 4 years later, I met her less fancy sister:
https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/59033941

You're a lucky duck! The Queen is gorgeous!