Should I Buy This?
 

Attached are pics of a Model 27-4 dated 1905.

it has been in the same family all this time and in a climate controlled environment. She is asking $300 for the machine and cabinet. I think that that is a little high was thinking of offering $150.00, it is a local pick up do no shipping charges.

I am asking for your advise because I am fairly new to collecting, have only bought 7 since March!!! Everytime my hubby leaves town, now that I am mostly retired, I go out to estate sales, have been having a Blast.

Anyway what do you think? I am really struggling with this because I have been looking for this machine for about a year and this is the best looking one I have found for the age. It is one that I plan to keep and use and it is the same model I learned to sew on, so I have some emotion involved that may be clouding my reality.

Thank you in advance for any input.

No way I'd even go $125 at $75 I'd still hum n haw

reason is someone did a hack refinish to make a sale.. I can see where they sloped finish on the hinges, so it was not taken apart to refinish, you have to guess there is loose veneer, it had shroll work on the drawer faces, I can see the impressions of those, again guessing it WAS a two or three drawer ( each side ) , they did a short cut and just cut off those drawers....

It looks like they started cleaning the head and found the gold coming off, then quite, it was very very dirty and still is... front plate is missing. looks like the shuttle is there maybe one bobbin...

Bottom line, they want top price, it has NOT been restored, for 300 you can buy a fully restore machine, cabinet and base. face it at 300 it should be a take home N sew, not take home N finish the job before you sew

I know it looks good to the eye ( age ol antigue shop pee trick)

ask your self, why doesn't it have a belt in place ??? @ $300

Not sure I agree with this assessment.... at all.

My .02

It DOES look like the decals are in great shape and with some loving from a clean cloth and sewing machine oil, it would really clean up nice. The parts where they look dark is actually "mung" that well clean up if careful and leave the decals just fine.

These drawers more than likely never had carvings on the face, this looks like the older style that was smooth (on purpose)

One drawer on each side is quite typical for this model.

I would agree that $100-$150 is more appropriate price wise.

I'd say if YOU like it and it makes YOU happy, go for it!

We'll be here to help.

Steve

As Steve said, there are some plain cabinets like this - you can find PDF versions of the original brochures online.
I have the same machine head in a slightly more ornate 4 drawer cabinet from 1896. I have not since seen one with decals in such good condition from that time period, although I'm in Australia.

I agree that I wouldn't pay $300. I saw a pristine model 15 with flawless sphynx decals and the seller wanted $250 and I thought that was way too much (I offered him $150.)

I was able to buy my not so flawless treadle for $102 from someone who just used it for display in their lounge room, so it was well kept. The decals are 90% there which I thought was good for it's age and the price. The cabinet is beautiful.

Maybe you could say you're interested in the machine head but really unsure about the cabinet... say you COULD be interested but hem and haw about it being so plain etc etc...? See if that helps get the price down. Good luck!

Thank you for your help with this. I am going to offer her $150.00 and see what happens. I agree that the cabinet model is correct for the machine, this is based on info from

http://www.ismacs.net/singer_sewing_...able_no_1.html

Steve, what is Mung? Just buildup?

Thank you Again

Linda

hey antique rd show wouldn't hire me, because of my truthful assessments, I am hard on assessing these, but I've been at this for over 40 yrs

agreed, the head isn't to bad. the cabinet did have stamped skroll work on the drawer and center drawer, stains from the glue still show

Hi,

Figure the most your willing to spend and do some hard bargaining. At $300, I don't think it will be going anyplace for a while. Hunting sewing machine is addictive. Good Luck.

Jon

Finish slopped on the hinges? Glue residue from missing scroll work?

Guess I need to go to the eye doctor, because I see none of that.

blow up the photo take another look

[QUOTE=brunswickgirl;6181061]Steve, what is Mung? Just buildup?/QUOTE]

Yeah, old oil and hand sweat and dirt and dust and......

Here is a White Model A with and without mung...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]424309[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]424310[/ATTACH]

ONEDAY ---I did save the pics and blow it up and see a KNOB on each drawer--no where do I see any glue or sloppy finishing on this cabinet. I agree I might need new glasses--just got them in DEC, but hey, maybe you have a different pic than I got on my computer.

Hi oneday,

I blew the cabinet photo up and can not see the glue stains that you are seeing. Can you insert a picture showing this glue residue? All of my Singer treadle cabinets have these plain drawers which I think were originally plain drawers. If they used to have fancy scrollwork I would like to know how to see the tell-tale signs that they have been altered.

Thanks,
Judy

I don't see any evidence of scroll work. Some cabinets had no drawers. The more drawers, the more expensive the cabinet. The fancy ones had pieces of pressed wood (wood pressed into a design) glued on. I enlarged it 200% and still can't see anything but a plain original drawer. Where is the evidence of the wood appliques? I can't see anything on the hinges either.

Is the missing slide plate in the drawer? You'll need that. Most of the chrome looks nice and shiny except the hand wheel. I agree the price is very high, but if you've been looking for a year for this exact machine, and you can afford it, maybe it's your lucky day like Steve said. It sounds like the seller has a sentimental attachment to this piece and maybe that's why it's over priced. The puzzle box seems to be in nice shape and the manual is present for it, which is kind of rare. Is the manual for the machine there? You might be able to find a free download, but still the original would be nice. Sorry I'm useless in helping you make this decision. What are the 7 machines you've bought? It sounds like you have caught the bug!

Yes I have caught the BUG in a bad way, I am fully infested.LOL

Model 15 Mint Green
Model 328,
1927 Model 99,
1949 Model 66,
301A
221, love the little machine and I have the card table with it.
And my big $5.00 purchase, a Riccar that you all helped me ID as a Model 15 Clone, it is Pink and I love it.
Betsy Ross Toy Machine

I have been fortunate that I have not paid much over $25 for most of the machines and that they all have been in really nice condition. The only one that required much cleaning was the Riccar and it was just dirty from years of dust accumulation.

The Betsy Ross I purchased on Ebay, the rest have come from Estate Sales that I went back to the last day and made a ridiculously low offer and it was accepted.

I just got an email back from her, she will not accept my $150.00 offer, at least for now. I will check back with her in a few weeks.

I have my eye on a Slant O Matic 500A and the Green Elna this week, both are local purchases. Also have 4 toys that I am watching on Ebay various models.

Again, thank you for your input, I really enjoy this site and hope to be able to help someone out in the future as I have helped.

Linda

Steve, thank you for the pics, got it.

LKS

300.00 seems a bit to high, guess it depends on how bad you want it!

A mint green Singer 15? I have never seen one. Is it a Japanese clone? I bet it's a looker. I love green. I once bought a mint green Riccar at a yard sale for $7. It was a good machine except it was a left needle zig zag, and I could not straight stitch narrow bindings on it. The needle was on the left, which meant the work was on only 1 feed dog, and I had little control of it. I ended up giving it away. Later I found out that I might have been able to get a SS throat plate and foot for it, but still the work would have been on only 1 dog so I don't know if that would have helped.

I also had a tan riccar straight stitch that someone had abandoned in my husband's apartment before I met him. He said it didn't work, but I bought a bobbin case for it and it sewed like a champ for many years. Then I found a 401 at a thrift shop, and in those days I must have had some marbles in my head because I figured I did not need the SS riccar now that I had the 401. Now I would like to get a 500A. I know it's almost identical to the 401 except for looks, but there is one important difference. The 500a has a calibrated presser foot pressure, and you can turn the pressure to D (for darn), and it releases the pressure and you can darn without changing feet (or even lifting the throat plate, maybe, not that that's so hard). I saw it in the manual online. There may not be enough visibility for embroidery (I've never tried that on any machine), but for darning it would be so convenient.

Some of the Japanese machines also had presser bars that could be released by pressing on the bar from on top -- it sort of pops up. Maybe the riccar even does that. I didn't know about this when I had them. I saw it in an online video of a 15 clone.

I inherited a featherweight from my mom. It's the machine I learned to sew on. Lucky you to have the table! Oh, and I have a Betsy Ross toy that I actually use. I posted pictures of it on a thread here about toys. And I just bought a 66 hand crank with lotus decals for $50 locally. I think that's it. But I'm thinking about buying another machine this week. An unusual German machine. It's not working but it's $20. That machine is actually what brought me to this board because there's a thread here about an identical machine but with a different name.
Keep us posted on the treadle!
--Sheila

Yah know, I have been racking my brain and for the life of me I cannot remember where I picked that one up....

The drawers with the scroll work typically have a recessed center. I've seen these drawers (and the center drawer) several times and they're not supposed to have the scroll work. I also have 2 treadles -with- scroll work of some sort, and they're not flat faced like these ones. I agree with others who say that these never had the glued on scroll work.

I finally got around to getting a pic of it. I need to get it cleaned and serviced then put to use
[ATTACH=CONFIG]424614[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]424615[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]424616[/ATTACH]

Oh my! That 15 has an unusual shape, let alone color. I want one!

I am pretty sure it is a 15, when I look the serial # up it shows it is a 15 and the label says 15, being new to this collecting I have no way of knowing if it is a clone or the real thing. What are your thought on it?

It was advertised as a 185-15, bought it off craigslist. I asked the guy about it, he said that he knew nothing about it had picked it up at a garage sale and found a green one on ebay so he thought it was a 185 then saw the 15 on the machine and came up with a 185-15!!! See how that works? LOL I bought it because of the color mostly, I will get it cleaned up and use it soon.

LOL! I like his reasoning.... but it's not a 185-15. ;)
It's a very uncommon model 15. http://sewing-machines.blogspot.ca/2...en-singer.html
A Singer 15-125. Care and feeding should be the same as the 15-91, if you don't have an original manual.
It's a beautiful specimen!

A clone is by definition -not- a Singer.

How the clones came about (I can't remember where I read this, if someone can point me there again I'd be darn grateful!)

After the second world war, Singer "gave" the design and rights to build the model 15 to the Japanese to help them rebuild their economy. Before long, a flood of Japanese machines (with typical Japanese precision build) were hitting the market, some looking identical to the Singers, some evolving to take on their own shapes and looks.
http://www.quiltingboard.com/picture...p-t164361.html

Thank you for that info and the link. As I mentioned I am new to this and love learning as much as I can.

My pleasure! I'm always happy to spout otherwise useless arcane knowledge that makes most of my friends glaze over. ;)

That's funny. If I had seen 185-15 in the title on CL I might have assumed it was an industrial and not even looked at the ad. (I'm not up on the industrial model numbers.)

Before the war Japanese goods were considered inferior, and I wonder if Singer thought there wouldn't be much competition with those machines.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was their thinking. After all, at some point prior to the war, they had something like 80+% market share, why would the Japanese offer them competition?

I would probably have clicked on it to be snoopy, that's it... depending on price.

Machines after somewhere in the mid-50s usually have something on them that will say their model number. In the case of this machine it's a 15-. They won't usually say the submodel if there is one, like 15-90, 15-91, 15-125 etc, that part comes with research and experience. But, the badge is always to be trusted as far as the model, unless someone changed it, but I can't see a reason to. At some point (late 50 early 60s) they moved the label to the stitch selector on some machines, like the 401A, 503J, etc.

I think the price is way out of lline.

I just purchased a 6 or 7 decorated drawer cabinet and 27 pheasant machine with reasonably good decals and a full puzzle box for $25. It will need Glen's restoration and cleaning techniques but seems otherwise sound. I will get a new belt for it but it has the shuttle, a bobbin or 2 and original manual. I think that if you haven't already purchased the machine that you may want to wait until a less expensive one comes along.

She did not take my $150.00 offer which I thought was generous. She has my contact info and I am hoping after she advertises it for a few months at $300.00 and finds that she cannot sell it at that she will come back and take my offer. In the meantime I will continue looking.