OK, I think you'll like this thread then, Sheila
http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...t204075-2.html

We talked about the CS ability and the plates and the bobbin case. The plate is 503599, the case is 503602
I sincerely doubt that the timing issues are really that common. It's all solid metal gears down there, it should be hard to jump a tooth. My first 431 had been interfered with before I got it, the second,.. well, luck of the draw maybe. That said, timing isn't hard to set, just sort of a pain if you want to use the machine immediately.

I had 3 naps today, 1 of them planned, one was just a short one before bed. ;) I've forgotten how good it can feel to have a quick nap during the day though. :) The unplanned one was when kitty decided it was nap time and I was joining her. I was lost. I usually have to wait til both kitties are napping before I can read or sew. Or sometimes I can get a little time in while they eat... for exactly the reasons you mention. I can't wait to see what they do with this new machine, now that it's set up. ;)

Hi Miriam....thanks for opening yours...this is my 411G....is mine ready to take a belt for using on the treadle? I was expecting a groove.

Hello Miriam, Sheluma, and Tammi,

I meant to post those drawers & accessory case photos for you earlier, but I've been busy w/ work. Sheluma, the case is actually made from plastic, not sure it shows on the pictures.

In the meantime, I also sewed my first pillow! (I'm not showing the curtain I did — aaaargh. Too short. Must be my dog's fault, lol: as soon as I lay down fabric to cut it, boom, he lies down on it & falls asleep, just like that! I then move on to something else, not wanting to disturb him, jeeez. He should hang out w/ your cats, Tammi.)

I've had some problems w/ tension, read all about it, tried many things, and now I'm waiting for good quality thread I bought online, and won't mess w/ the machine anymore until I try the thread.

Tammi, you mentioned you might have a needle clamp for me? That would be amazing! Is there any way I could also purchase more bobbins from you, if you have them? (I saw some on ebay, but if you're a reseller, I'd prefer to buy them from you).

Have a great week-end!

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I would be over the moon... The tension needs to be rebuilt. I wish I could reach into my computer screen, take it off and clean it for you. I like to clean up the springs and the disks. Everything else gets clean, too but those seem to get really gunky. Some rubbing alcohol or some nail polish remover will clean the gunk off those parts. The painted parts just need regular cleaning with something that won't take off paint or finish. Then put it all back together. You will need to find a manual for your machine or a service manual so you can see how it goes. The best help is in this manual: http://www.tfsr.org/pub/technical_in...echanism_2.pdf The closest is going to be the Modern 201 - however there are differences. You will need to pay close attention when you take it apart. Especially the end pieces. Put them in order the way you take it apart and the side toward you up as you go. Take pictures. Clean as you put back. Then if you test it and it doesn't work you may need to take it part way back apart and tighten or loosen the end piece then put it all back. I doubt if that makes any sense. Tammi is much better at explaining things.

Ha! My cats would put the run on him. Our dog ( a shepherd husky cross) is scared of them, and will whine and cry if there's a cat between her and me. She'll walk around the whole house to avoid one. The funny part is, it's the odd swipe (and they have soft paws, so it's not like it would "hurt") and mostly hissing. I think she met a meaner cat prior to us getting her when she was a year old.

I'm so sorry I forgot to look for the clamp for you. I knew I was forgetting something and just couldn't put my finger on it. The needle clamp part number you're looking for is 172223, I don't have one here, but Richard (souseandsew) has one on Bonanza. I've dealt with him. He's good, if a little eccentric. ;) He will also have class 66 bobbins for you too BUT, if you can get this stuff on your side of the Atlantic, it will cost you way less! It's going to cost you way too much for shipping. Helen Howes might be able to help you. Tell her you'd like vintage bobbins, and that needle clamp. http://www.helenhowes-sewingmachines.co.uk/index.html Worst case scenario, I have some things to order from Richard and I can order that and send you bobbins, but I think your money is better spent if you can get the stuff "over there". Canadian shipping to anywhere is just exorbitant.

I remember you mentioned that you're new to sewing, right? Before you disassemble the machine's upper tension, just see what it's current state is.

http://www.archaicarcane.com/fragile...-equal-stress/
http://www.archaicarcane.com/bobbin-...obbin-tension/

I can use almost any thread in my machines (all the ones I've tried have worked, but I didn't like the pre-wound bobbins my supplier sent, the thread kept breaking.), even the junkiest oldest thread I can find - what's wound on the bobbins of the vintage machines I buy - I was using that for practicing my FMQ (and emptying the bobbins at the same time)

Your pooch is sooo cute! Try laying out a small piece of fabric that you don't want to cut ("decoy" fabric), wait for him to lie down on that, then lay out your real fabric. Congrats on your first pillow! That cabinet is just the nicest I've ever seen. And you have the original brochure for it. Over the moon is right (as Miriam said). Sorry you're having tension problems -- I'll let the experts help you on that. I suppose you've already checked for lint and thread bits. I sometimes clean the discs by taking a lint-free cloth, putting alcohol on it, and inserting it between the discs and moving it back and forth.

Thanks Sheluma for your kind words. And thanks for the laugh too — decoy fabric, I love that!
And Miriam, I wish you could indeed reach out from your computer... I like dissembling, reading all about the mechanics of the old singers, learning so much every day! I do enjoy it a lot. But now I'm starting to get desperate. A constantly perfect stitch feels so close, yet so far. Your manual helped a lot too, along w/ Tammi's website.
Tammi, thanks so much for the UK link. I'll contact Helen Howes asap for the needle clamp! Also, the thread quality info is great, along with the tip about giving it a gentle tug upwards between the tension discs.

I think I now know enough about tension to be able to explain what's happening in my case:

What I did since I got the machine:
- Cleaned the bobbin area, took tons of lint, thread, and hair out from deep under.
- Took the bobbin case out and adjusted it as explained here (Tammi, that was before I got your links):
http://www.treadleon.net/sewingmachi...djustment.html
- Disassembled the upper tension according to Miriam's manual. It was all clean but at least I fixed the dial misalignment I had.
Result:
I'm testing w/ several threads of unknown origins, making sure to put the same on top & on the bottom, on 2 layers of an old, but nice quality/soft, cotton pillow case, and w/ a #80 needle (I don't have a #90, I do have #100 though...).
--> I get a perfect or near perfect stitch ONLY when I turn the dial up to 9!!! :shock:
Tammi, what confuses me most, is that at the same time, when I put the dial at 1 or 1.5, the needle deflects about 1/16″ (http://www.archaicarcane.com/fragile...-equal-stress/).
What I tried:
- If I lower both tensions, it becomes slightly OK around 6 (on the top tension) only if I completely unscrew the bottom bobbin. Not good, right? Also, in this case, the stitch quality changes dramatically according to the machine speed.
- If I tighten the tension on the dial during its assembly, when I put it on 0 afterwards, there's way too much tension already, past Tammi's needle deflection point.
What I didn't do:
- Clean & oil any other part... They look clean & oiled already, and... lazy me in (in)action here.
- Change the tension spring. I'm having small doubts about it:
Natural position: 10 o'clock.
If I push it down to 9 o'clock, it springs back to 10 o'clock.
If I push it up to 12 o'clock, it sometimes stays on 11 o'clock.

Help? :)

PS: Dogs think they're human. Cats think they're god. ;)

The reason I use a 90, is that I know what it will do. An 80 will deflect faster, because the metal is thinner, easier to bend. Same thing with the 100, it will deflect later.

I feel like you have a bunch of tiny things out of whack.
I prefer my bobbin cases to be a smidgen looser than they say. I usually loosen the spring screw until it starts to unwind slowly, then stops by itself without having to give the thread a jerk. For me, that seems to lead to a more consistent result.

I think there's a chance the thread is mismatched to the needle. A known 50wt thread will possibly be able to boss an 80 needle around a little more than it would a 90 (make it deflect faster) You would also have a tendency to see more thread shredding with this combo in use.

The numbers on the dial are 100% dependent on assembly. I think this is your major stumbling block at the moment. I think the tensioner is still mis-assembled, but only slightly.

I've been avoiding putting up a tutorial about how to diassemble the top tensions, because of 2 things: 1. there's the TFSR site, though these tensioners are a little different, and
2. If I put it up, I'm concerned that I may not have the time to support all of the people who could have trouble putting it back together.

Here's the gotcha about the way the 411, 431, 401, 500 tensioners are built:

You want to adjust the tension to make sense -before- you put the number dial on. It's counter intuitive, but you would adjust the tension to have the ever so slightest perceptible drag on the thread and then put the "0" on the knob there, and put the remaining 2 pieces on to hold the number dial there. Gee, I hope that makes sense.

I think you'll find that if you're loosening the top and bottom tensions so much that the stitches look "OK" but the bobbin tension screw is almost out, that the stitches may look OK top and bottom, but if you separate the pieces of fabric, the stitches will gap. Not OK.

OK, the tension spring should drop to about 6 oClock when it's not resting on the little uh,... rest (or caught on the screw at about 7 or 8 Oclock)

You will also benefit from this Service Manual: http://parts.singerco.com/IPsvcManuals/306W25.pdf

It's for the 401 (starting at page 125, but the first 79 pages are also relevant which is why I always post this link, and not the shorter one a lot of people post from the Slant Singer Yahoo group), but fundamentally, -most- of your machine is the same, not quite all though, so use some caution when things look a little different.

Page 132 addresses the tension spring and thread tension.

Let us know how you make out with it, and what you find. Tension is relatively "Easy" to fix, when you know what the symptoms are. :)

My oldest kitty knows she's the queen. The other one is fine with the position of Court Jester. ;)

Some times on the tension, I get it all together and it doesn't seem to adjust right. Then I take off the end nut, give that inside nut another slight turn and put it all back. Sometimes that does the job. Some times I have just turned the dial over and it worked fine. Tweaking the tension is more of an art I fear. Maybe the art is messing with it until it works. When it works it is SWEET. Some times they go back together just as pretty as you please - then some times they want you to fool around - usually if you don't have much time...

Poor Plume. I don't think I was even aware of the bobbin tension screw until I'd be sewing for about 20 years. Whenever my tension goes out of whack it's always because the machine needs cleaning and oiling. Knocking on wood here...almost considering not posting so as not to ruin my luck. I have to remind myself that I'm not superstitious.

It does sound like you have the numbers lined up wrong, though, at least for starters. Good thing Tammi and Miriam are here to help you.

Hi Tammi,

Thanks so much again.

--> fixed it, thanks!

--> It makes sense, absolutely. The problem I have with this, is that if I put the "0" in the correct position (slightest perceptible drag), then my stitches are perfect on "9" only. If I set this "9" position to read "4" or "5" instead on the dial, the "0" is then super tight and the discs become much harder to release on any dial number when the foot is up.
Aaargh. I think I should wait for new thread & needles before testing more. Right?

Also, the 401M I have has different parts for the upper tension than the American ones. I finally found some tutorials & images online for it:
http://mysewingmachineobsession.blog...f-tension.html
If you search for "tension", you'll find many other posts on this blog with great close-up pictures, for the American model & different Singers too.

Please hug the queen & court jester for me, I miss my cat :(

I hope so!!!!! :)

lol

Yes!

But please, Sheluma, Tammi, and Miriam: don't spend too much time on this. I found a Singer repairman not far away. I was just hoping to fix it myself (getting to know the machine in the process, which I think is important... and find enjoyable), and also hoping too you would have a magic 1-step easy answer, lol.


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I love Elizabeth's blog. Which parts are different from the ones on Elizabeth's page? Also, what happened to your cat? Did I miss something? I have fuzzy family. A mamma cat, about 13, and two of her offspring, 5 years old. They mostly get along, except sometimes mamma attacks her male kid. She favors the female kid, who she lets suckle. (Psycho!) I'm sure she's not producing any milk, though. Mamma uses a funny meow to call the kid when she wants to engage in this behavior. Then when she's tired of it she bites the kid's head.

The link I just sent has pictures of the same exact parts as my Italian machine. Basically, comparing the US upper tension and mine/Elizabeht's:
- the discs are symmetric, same on front & back
- the little round thing (with the upper hook on the US models) have no hook here, just a flat tip pointing up
- the dial is not fixed by the little hook but instead with a big screw-thing in front of it

Aaaaah, my cat died 2 years ago, liver failure at 18 years old (I've had many cats, and didn't know this was actually a common illness for cats). I tried to "fix" her during 1 long year, until the end. Our dog seemed so alone afterwards (and he was starting to think way too much he was a human), and I was still so sad, that we got the little dog you saw on the pictures to mend things. It worked! We're crazy about him. And our older dog gets to play again.

Your mamma & daughter cat story sounds like it would be a good YouTube :)

Very interesting. Elizabeth's tension matches yours? I would have thought hers to be American.

I'm sorry about your cat. We had another cat in this fuzzy family who died at age 2 1/2. She had cancer of the spleen and bone marrow (a leukemia, though she was FELV negative.) I think she got it because when we were trying to catch her when she was a feral kitten, she hid in a ceiling that had asbestos in it. The vet speculated genetics. We spent a month trying to fix her, but it was hopeless. She was the most playful and loving of the 3 kittens (to us as well as her siblings -- she would seek them out to cuddle with them). I've had many cats, but none who died so young. I miss them all so much.

Yes, the tensions match exactly. Actually, if you go back to the 1st page of this thread you'll see on the pictures that Miriam posted of the Singer 401G, that it has the same tension too (look closely). Also, Elizabeth seems to have many different machines, and on this one (http://mysewingmachineobsession.blog...f-tension.html), it's like mine (she doesn't specify if it's a A, G, or M), whereas this one (a 301 — http://mysewingmachineobsession.blog...-assembly.html) seems to have the same parts as the 401A...

Oooh I'm so sorry for your kitty too. So young...

I am so enjoying the photos.

Hey everybody, I'm new here and don't know anything about quilting (i was looking into it the past few weeks) but i came here after a search on google for my newley bought Singer 431G Slant o matic. The seller told me it was cleaned and tuned (sorry i'm Dutch and can't find a better word) But it is NOT!!! It is dirty i do think he oiled her but way to much if i turn it on and sew with it there is a weard smell comming out of it. I really hope the motor isn't broken. So can anybody tell me where to start with the whole cleaning and tuning proces? I can't find much about this model online (or i'm looking in the wrong places). I hope you people can help me, i really would love to get it to sew again.

Maybe you can start by cleaning off any excess oil and be sure to clean off lint. Then let us know what else you find.

Ok and should i just start by taking off the top part of the machine? I know i have to to open her up but i'm a bit scared to do that hihi.

You can take things off. Just do one at a time. Keep track of what you take off - think ahead how you are going to get it put back on. Muv has a very nice video about cleaning a sewing machine: http://www.quiltingboard.com/vintage...v-t167789.html
She has older machines but they clean about the same.

@Miriam Thnx for the encouraging words!

The tension was WAY off and the number plate could turn without me turning the tension so that was loose. I took the tension parts off cleaned it. The tension stud was bended, i had to carefullly bend it back and put the whole thing back together at first the tension was still way off and even if i put it at 9 it was still not tight enough. I had to tighten the threaded nut a bit and than put the numbered dail on so it was all a bit tighter.

I think i had the same problem as Plume with the tension. O and i did have problems with the cheaper tread at first but now it takes all tread.

Tisch, ik ben blij voor jou, geweldig!

Yesterday I had a good run with a different piece of fabric, so... I think right now I have to learn more about the correct thread/needle/fabric balance. Hopefully that's all it is.

:)

Some new pictures & 1 question:

I finally opened up the machine. It was in the same condition inside as it was outside: pretty clean (I think), oiled and greased. I still cleaned it a little more, and added a tiny bit of oil & grease afterwards.

My question is about the underside cover. The felt on its inside is completely damp & oily. As you can see from the side view (last picture), it's also disintegrating. If I pick on it, it comes out as a bunch of hair.
Is it better to leave it as is? Remove it and try to dry it? Remove it altogether? Replace it somehow?...

Thanks!

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Some of mine came with felt some did not - I'd pull it out and toss it. Maybe you can cut a new piece and put it in if you like.

Hi Miriam,

OK, I'll just toss it, and next time I'm in a fabric store I'll buy some.

And... guess what... I just tested the 401 again after opening it & cleaning/greasing/oiling it, went from a 6 to a 2 on the dial (6 suddenly felt too tight), and the stitch is amazingly nice (with the "bad" thread)!!! I'll test some more and will reset the dial once I'm certain all's good. This will most probably get rid of my "0 is too tight" problem too.

I still need to learn about the needles & thread weight.

Anyway, thanks again, all of you, for helping me out!

I've used about any needles on mine. Did you know you can put 2 needles in together? Mine uses about any thread.

Oh, good! Less worries!

Yes, I have seen the 2 needle thing in the manual (that's what you're talking about, right?). My prospective projects are super simple (pillows, and when I'm comfortable enough, pajama bottoms), but who knows... maybe one day I'll need that technique!

It is a LOT of fun to see what 2 needles will do! You can use 2 different color threads!

Ok ok, I'll try! :D

You ARE allowed to play a little you know!

Ha ha, just sewing on a leftover piece of fabric is already so much fun to me right now. I feel like a kid w/ a new toy!

@ Plume Ja ik ben ook blij!! I know how you feel tested some diffrent stiches today when my little man was in bed and i'm really happy with the results!

I will try and take some pictures tonight of my pretty machine.

@Miriam does it fit 2 needles of any brand or only the 2020 Singer needles.
And an other question is it true that the 401,411 and the 431 are much a like?

You need the right size needles. I like the Schmetz universal needles the best then Organ or maybe Singer. You can use up to size 18. For the fine stitches you want smaller size needles. Cathy (Mizkaki) is the one to tell you all you want to know about needles. I wish she would do a tutorial of some sort when she feels better.

Oke i think my mom read somewhere that if you want to do the "fancy" stiches they come out better if you use the 2020 Singer needles do you have any experience with that?(We bought are 431 at the same time)

Ow and i really want to thank everyone that posted links here,i got some good things out of almost every link!

Plume, I wonder if the post on your 401 is a little too far out from the body, and rocking it back to clean it might have reseated the disks and given them less play. It's a guess. Technically oiling / greasing the under bits shouldn't have anything to do with the upper tension.

My guess on the 401 on Elizabeth's blog is that it's a 401A. The needlebar has a USA stamp on the side of it. That's just a guess though.

Sheluma - my oldest kitty, now gone, used to nurse both of our remaining kitties, despite never having been a mom. One of the kitties actually chewed holes from nursing too long (past the milk teeth stage), and she would cry but not stop her. The vet said she'd put a stop to it when it hurt her enough. She didn't. Eventually, I was desperate to stop it, and I put a toddler jumpsuit on her all the time when I was home, and separated them when I wasn't. It broke the habit, she healed up and they were all fine.

Tisch - depending on the weird smell, it could be "long unused vintage motor" smell. If it's really strong though, it could use a looking at. The motor can be removed and the oil cleaned out if that's the issue, but I'd do like miriam suggested and check everything else out first.

Personally, I don't find the Singer needles to be what they used to be. I use schmetz 130/705 15x1 needles in the slants and have never had a problem. Organ is also good, and you should see one or more of the same markings on the Organ needles (they may say 130, or 130/705, or 705, or 15x1) or they may say HAx1

All of the designations hurt my head. Cathy does certainly know her stuff.

The 401, 411, 431 are all -basically- the same machine.

• The 401A doesn't chainstitch and isn't treadle-able.
• I think by Miriam's photos that the G doesn't chain either, I don't see a chaining guide by the tensioner, but can be treadled. They both have the "elevator plate".
• The 411G can be treadled and can chainstitch, it also has the elevator plate. This is my favorite variant of the series.
• The 431G is the Convertible (or open arm) version of the series. It can't be treadled - no hinges on the back, but it does chainstitch. It has the lift off plates instead of the elevator plates. Probably for lack of room in the " open arm"

I suppose one of these days I should get off my rump and post some pics of the 431G for comparision. :)

Thnx for those anwsers!

I was planning on taking some foto's tonight but my kids had to much fun playing so did not take the pictures.
I'm really new to vintage sewing machine. I bought a kohler in a cabinet (threadle) verry cheap 2 months ago because i love how they look. I had no idea that you could still sew with them and my mom found the 431G online on Marktplaats, it sayd it was cleaned and everything and we just had to have them(te seller was selling 2) but it was not. I am really starting to like these vintage machines!