Temps., high and low, for storing machines?
 

This has probably been discussed before but I am wondering about temperatures, high and low, in which machines are stored. Is there a sort of upper/lower limit in which a mechanical machine should not go over/under? I was thinking high heats might be worse than low colds but I may be wrong? Surely moisture of any kind is an absolute negative for storage. I know that some of you have found machines in all kinds of places and some of you cannot even get all the machines you own into your climate controlled houses so wondered what you do about that? Do you cover them with quilts or similar coverings or just hope for the best as they sit in a cold/hot garage or outbuilding?

And on a secondary road from that thought, how about computerized machine storage temps. Are there minimum/maximum temps for those too? Would any of you vintage machine people have an idea about that? I think the cold weather here in the east has me wondering what I should set my heating/cooling unit on in my outbuilding studio.

Thanks for any input you can offer.

Not sure but we have a cargo trailer and it gets 29 or so here in the winter and up to 120 in summer. So far they all seem fine, they are way off the ground and on a wood floor. I was told setting them down on concrete floors are the worst. I also know from experience that machines in cases fair better than those in tables in barns and sheds.

You want the machines to stay about the same temp - going between cold & hot & hot & cold they can sweat and ruin the finish and the sweat can make rust - my good machines are stored inside - I have some parts machines in the garage but nothing that will ever work again...

the ones in cases probably do better because they are enclosed. Changes happen more slowly inside the case. The hot/cold cycles are more gradual, less extreme than if the machine was open to the surrounding air. Dust plays a role in how fast a machine will rust too. The dust attracts moisture.
Rodney

some of the pic's I post were taken with in an hour of removing machines from a old Mobil home. where they had sat since about 2002, in there cases. There are 15 clones so there enamel baked finish and no shellac, so there finish has survived nicely . but in the photo you can see they are soaken wet, some of the cases are rotten and all stink to hi heaven.

there were sitting on 70's shag carpet, one bare machine was on new paper, that machine was the worst of all, paper rusted to the metal.

The singers 50's vintage and shellac. these the shellac was wrinkling and turning to dust. dirty looking stuff. again the 50's machine by singer are also enamel baked, so the black is fine, but the metal was starting to rust.

by the time I took this photo a lot of the moister had evaporated around the spool pin is water. every machine on the floor and sitting up onto of cabinet but in fabric covered cases looked like this, machines in cabinets not enclosed were dry

machines in cases with loose tops were also wet. machines sitting open no case at all were dry. even ones in plastic cases were wet. but not as wet as the fabric covered cases.

as far as hot vs cold any machinery I can think of. hot climate fairs much better than machinery from a cold climate

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and don't store these with fabric under the presser foot, unless you want a rusty foot and feed dogs.

we don't plan on dying between the time there put away and the next use, But we do.

When I think about the climate inside of old ranch houses back years ago, I’d say that everything in the house, sewing machines included, went through hot and cold temperatures on a regular basis. I remember when staying with my Grandma in the mountains of Colorado during the winter as a kid, of her stoking up the Warm Morning coal stove in the living room when we went to bed, and how cold the house was the next morning when we woke up. It went from hot with a banked-up stove at night, to colder than heck with a few glowing cinders by morning, every day, all winter long, every winter.

On the hot side, she didn’t even have indoor plumbing, much less air conditioning when it got hot in the summer. Whatever the outside temperature was, it was about the same in the house.

I don’t think hot and cold matter as much to sewing machine finishes as moisture does, but I could be wrong. I store my machines in non-climate-controlled areas here in Oklahoma, and haven’t noticed any problems with the finish crackling on any machines that weren’t already that way. I just make an effort to keep them dry.

And from my experience, having a piece of cloth under the presser foot to “protect the feed dogs”, or leaving a threaded bobbin or the upper tension threaded during storage will cause problems before hot or cold temperatures. The fabric and thread hold moisture from the air, and promote rust.

CD in Oklahoma

I think it is the fluctuation of the hot and cold that is the problem with the sewing machines and the moisture is a very big problem. Although heat is the worst it can melt the shellac and then when it gets cold again the shellac will crack and turn cloudy form the humidity.

A couple of things that I might add to this discussion just to throw them out, and not directed at anyone specific:

When we put a seized-up machine in a bag and set it in a car in hot temperatures, or hit it with a hot hair dryer, while limbering up the stuck lubricants are we ruining the finish?

If the non-climate-controlled garage or shed is the only place that you have to store a machine, won’t it fair better than buried in a sanitary landfill?

CD in Oklahoma

CD you are right.
The best thing for the old machines is to keep them in use.

Yes CD they will fair better in a shed or garage than a landfil. Although I am afraid that these collectors who think they are saving the machines and keeping them in a garage or shed that is not climate control. They usually never get around to fixing them up to use and re-home. What do you think will happen to all these machines in storage when the owners leave this world?? Will the family keep them or get rid of them?? I wonder if we are going to save them lets save them to be used and pass them on to people who need a machine.
Skip

Well said - keep the machines working if possible.

Thanks for all the great info. I know that moisture is probably the worse thing for machines but I did not realize how moisture can show up in certain places. I always keep a scrap of fabric under my foot between the foot and the plate. Did not realize that it can cause a problem. I will be headed out to the studio today and the first thing I will do is pull out those scraps from any/all machines. And yes, you guys/gals are so right ..... the machines need to be used and passed on to others if they are not. I have a couple more that I should do that with but some will stay with me. Haven't used my two teadles in a long time so I should get them oiled and humming. Still need some re-organizing after a not too distant move and house rehabing. Thanks for all the discussion on this subject. I am now so much more informed and that is never or at least hardly ever a bad thing.

I have always thought a piece of felt under the foot prevented rust on the needle plate. Great info on this site. I will be removing all of my felt scraps this morning.

My sewing room also doubles as my vanity room. Actually, blowing my hair dry. my machines are always up. I have them covered when not in use. I usually have a couple projects or have just fiddled with the machines. Anyway, While doing something else I keep them covered. I use the vinyl tablecloths and they cover a large space. I save the moisture absorbing packets you find in medication and vitamin bottles and some shoe boxes. Keeping those nearby or right at the machines help.

Great info! Thanks! I am very concerned about this as my storage space is so limited. I have a 2 in the garage that are waiting for my attention this Spring and then they will be moved inside after cleanup.

I was told to store the machines with the presser foot in the "up" position to avoid rusting problems - is this a good recommendation?

I've always had the habit of leaving the foot up - no contact with the feed dogs and no fabric under there either.

A general rule of thumb is sewing machines store well any place humans would "store well"

Attics get Extremely hot, basements get extremely cold. few folks would want to live in a basement or attic. Most primary dwelling spaces are moisture "managed" but most outlying spaces are not.

The older the machine, the more sensitive the finish is. 10x was spot on about shellac vs enamel.

Really old machines have polished steel components, vintage machines tend to be nickle plated, while newer machines typically have hard chrome finish to the metal bits. ALL of that makes a difference in its requirements for care and longevity.

Dull metal rusts easier than polished metal, polished metal resists rust better than brushed or satin finish metal due to the reduced surface area of polished metal

What an educational read this has been this morning. Thanks for all the good advice. I do have some older (black) machines out in my sewing room, uncovered and unprotected, but for the most part I was kinda aware of how to store them when not in use. I did not know about the fabric under the presser foot, though. That will be checked into in the next few days.

Another good idea is to releive some the tension on the presser foot spring by by turning the adjuster out on top of the machine. And yes always the presser foot up. Steve is right on, if you are comfortable the machine will be to.

Really .... the presser foot should be left in the up position as several of you have mentioned? I am shocked by this. I have always thought that it needs to be in the down position so that the pressure is taken off the spring. That just sounds so logical to me that I have always done that ... but then I have always kept a piece of fabric under the foot also. Boy, the things one learns on this site! You guys are irreplaceable as far as knowledge goes. Anything else I should know to stop doing that I have been doing for way too long (other than eating chocolate)? Guess I'll find out eventually since I always read the Vintage/Antique threads.

I do keep my machines in a controlled atmosphere. In the studio that we built a year or so ago, the heater/cooler is set at 60 in the winter (I turn it up to 65 if I get chilly while out there working) and 78 in the summer so I am guessing that they are all going to be okay. It is nice a dry and well insulated so that should be good too.

leave the presser down.

you can relieve the tension on the foot by flipping it to like you would for free motion.

I had always been told to leave the foot down too, to avoid stressing the spring!

Maybe BEST is to just take the foot off so you can take pressure off the spring and still have no metal contact? But then the foot is probably more likely to get lost...maybe tie it to the presser bar with some thread or something... My "family" of machines is still small enough it all lives indoors in my sewing room, which I keep very comfortable.

I'm trying to limit my machine collection by telling myself I can't keep anything I don't use at least once a year. We'll see how that goes, though...I'm still too attached to everything to let any of it go!

Sewnoma, I like your suggestion of taking the foot off and leaving the pressure foot unit down. I really don't like the idea of leaving that up with pressure continually on the spring. I have boxes for my feet for each machine so if I make sure I put the foot in it's appropriate box, I (hopefully) shouldn't lose it. Thanks for that idea!

I have heard this about spring "saving" a lot...... Does anyone actually have any experience with a spring that has been weakened like this? Some times things that "just make sense" actually don't

I ask because spring tempered steel is remarkably stable. I have had machines that I know were stored for 80+ years with the foot in the UP position, that once the rust was removed, the spring worked fine. I have had the honor of working hands on with 17th century armor with spring tempered bits that even with a few hundred years of being in one position, still worked flawlessly.

I would be willing to bet that even the most amount of spring weakening you would get over a VERY long time, could be compensated for with an 1/8 of a turn of the presser foot tension..

Now, I should say that machines made in the "modern era" may have a different quality of steel that had some inherent weakness or susceptibilities.

my .02

I've never seen a problem with those springs unless Egor tampered with one

Well, Steve, I'm going to put my 2 cents worth in. The Singer 202 that we realized we had several weeks ago had the presser foot down -- rusted down, not to the slide/needle plate, just rusted. It took a lot of persuasion (gentle, mind you) to get it freed up! So, I'm with you, leave the presser feet up. I've noticed that repair shops usually have a piece of fabric placed between the presser foot and the needle/slide plate -- that's because the machine has been "sewn off"to make sure, and to show the customer the machine is stitching properly! Okay, enough! LOL

Jeanette

Ok just remember that fabric is VERY dry to start. if you store it in an environment that is humid, the fabric will absorb that moisture and become a rust risk.

You're Right
 

Glenn,
You are right. The fluctuation in temperature causes condensation, water, to form. Water is the enemy. If one wishes to "protect" feed dogs, use thicker plastic, a lid from coffee etc. Othewise, nothing at all should be used.
Donna

Now I am almost sorry that I asked this question. (JK) Even so, not sure what I will do about my presser feet .... up or down .... just not sure what to do. I wasn't thinking that the spring would weaken but would maybe become permanently squeezed somewhat (so to speak) more than it normally would be and therefore would not hold the foot down with as much pressure as much at it used to or should. Not so, SteveH? I would have to defer to your expertise as you appear to be the knowledgeable one on metals and old machines. At least you have certainly had a whole lot of experience base on all the info. in your posts about things you do and are into.

Will have to think about this but I am certainly leaning heavily toward leaving the foot up as per several of you experts in vintage machines have said to do. You have worked with, cleaned, and used more old machines that I will ever see so I guess that is the best way to go.

I started an experiment on Wednesday.

I took three matched springs
measured the lengths (1.25")
left one alone
Put a skinny bolt through one with a washer on each side and a nut to compress it to .75"
secured the end of the third and stretched it to 1.75" and used a nail to hole it stretched

It is up in the rafters now for 6 mos.

We will see if after 6 mos I feel like (or a need) to extend the test to a year or more

A more accurate test would be spring tension testing, but our pull tester at work is calibrated and set up for our small medical tools we make, so I can 't use it for playing

SteveH, I for one will be interested in the outcome of your testing. Thanks for doing this. Now if I can just survive for the next 6 months ....... thankfully I am not in Boston! Yikes!

As a side note, it is not a good idea to leave thread in the spools. I have several long bobbins and most have been rusted because of thread left on them. The first thing I do is remove the shuttle and check for thread on the bobbin. Then I pull the thread off and give it to the birds.
Helen Ann

I've seen that, too - I pull off the thread then soak the bobbin in some vinegar then use some foil and brush off the rust. Get them good and dry and they should be better than the new ones you can buy.