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White Rotary 41 - Several Interesting Differences
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This is my first post on the Quilting Board. I've come across a machine that does things a little differently than most that I've seen. I am hoping that some of the members here might have some thoughts on, or even better, some experience with this particular machine.
The machine is a White Rotary 41, made in the late 1930s I believe. Its not exactly pretty, it has a lot of period styling, but it seems like a very rugged and durable machine. It has a black wrinkle finish, probably very resilient to dings and scratches. I'm thinking that it might be about the most difficult kind of surface to clean, though. I've been experimenting with various methods to clean it. So far I have only done a once-over much needed cleanup of many years of surface grunge. Just good enough to take these pictures. More needs to be done. I learn something from each machine that I study. I'm learning more than usual with this one. The White Rotary seems different in several respects, some almost unnoticeable, some much more obvious. I'll try to go on order of increasing significance. Only a visual matter, one of the things I really like is the T-shaped bobbin cover plate. No practical reason - I just like its look. (White Rotary 41 - Front View) [ATTACH=CONFIG]518221[/ATTACH] ------------------------------ Bobbin Winder - An eye-catching chrome bobbin winder, along with the pancake handwheel, contribute to the period styling of the machine. It looks like the 1930s. There is a contoured bar that extends upwards with a roller wheel to guide the thread to the bobbin. On the bottom of the winder is a curved, ball tipped handle. Needle Plate Area - This area is raised very slightly from the main surface level of the bed. It seems like this might be nice for sewing. At the very least, I think it has a pleasing look. (Bobbin Winder) (Needle Plate Area) [ATTACH=CONFIG]518222[/ATTACH] --------------------------------- Drive Method - Really not that unusual, but the White Rotary is a direct drive machine. The direct drive turns the handwheel in the opposite direction from belt driven operation. For those used to the top-of-handwheel-toward-you standard, it might take some getting used to. Also, since the pancake handwheel has no pulley, it would require a different handwheel to ever be used with a treadle. The rubber drive wheel on the motor could probably use replacement. (Direct Drive) [ATTACH=CONFIG]518223[/ATTACH] ---------------------------------- Clutch or Stop-Motion - When the clutch knob is removed, it exposes some unusual components, most notably three ball bearings in a ring carrier. I was fortunate enough to have read about these ball bearings somewhere and knew of them in advance. It is best to disassemble this with as close to a handwheel-up orientation as possible, so that the ball bearings don't fall out and get away from you. The clutch assembly may be seen with the clutch knob removed. First the 3 ball bearings need to be removed, then the ball bearing carrier, then the clutch washer. After this, the handwheel can be removed. It has the normal clutch washer, but with only one tab. The clutch or stop-motion knob turns almost a whole turn, in tightening and loosening, instead of the more common 120 degree range. The ball bearings give it a really smooth feel at the point of tightening. The ball bearings are each 0.187 inches in diameter. (Handwheel Up) (Knob Removed) (Clutch Parts) [ATTACH=CONFIG]518224[/ATTACH] ------------------------------- Tension Control - Most tension mechanisms I've seen are basically built on a threaded rod, having two saucer-shaped disks, with a spring and adjustable knob or knurled nut . The White Rotary 41 has a unique oval-shaped tension control assembly located on the faceplate area of the machine. Until I can get a manual, I'm stumped as to how to even thread it properly. There is a tension adjustment knob on the front of the machine. The mechanism is hidden inside and I haven't been able to see it yet, which brings me to something else. Most machines have a removable cover plate, or have a door which opens to expose the needle and presser bars. The White Rotary 41 has an end cap assembly. It looks like the entire assembly, including needle bar, presser bar, tension control and thread take-up lever, may separate completely from the arm. I haven't tried it yet. If this is true, its removal from the arm could affect the timing at the very least, if not reassembled in such a way as to preserve the exact position of all parts. A manual would help for this, too. Like the ball bearings in the clutch, mentioned earlier, I'd like to know what's in there and how it comes apart, and more importantly how it goes back together correctly. Presser Foot Lever - This is a departure from more common and widespread designs. Very simple in operation, one rotating lever located on the outside of the machine, raises the foot and releases the thread tension at the same time. This lever may operate more smoothly after it is cleaned and oiled. Since I'm more used to the other type of flip-up lever, above and behind the needle, I find it a little awkward. (Tension Control) (Presser Foot Lever) [ATTACH=CONFIG]518225[/ATTACH] ----------------------------------- Bobbin Hook Drive Mechanism - I've saved what I think is the most interesting difference for last. It is in two parts. And probably only of interest to geeks. (obviously I must be one) First, I've noticed that turning shafts and bevel gears are commonly used in rotary hook machines. The designers of this machine managed to get a stall-proof rotary drive to the bottom of the machine with a single connecting rod. Quite a feat. Second, is the rotation of the hook itself. Almost all rotary bobbin hooks turn twice for every needle stroke. This is necessary to have enough speed picking up the thread and getting it around the bobbin quickly enough to form the stitch. There is a clever mechanism on this machine that speeds the bobbin hook up, while getting the thread around the bobbin, then slows it down until the next needle drop. It changes speed like this during each rotation. By doing this, it accomplishes in one hook rotation what other rotary machines do in two. (Machine Bottom) [ATTACH=CONFIG]518227[/ATTACH] --------------------------------- In closing, I would welcome thoughts from anyone who might know something about this machine or have any comments on it. Anything at all would be received with appreciation. And lastly, thank you for reading this post, if you've made it this far. |
I've got several White Rotary machine over quite a period of time - will be fun to look at them and compare to this one. Since your post says "several interesting differences" are they between this one other Whites, or between White and Singer?
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What you have described is common to most of the 30s, 40s, and 50s White Rotaries. Love your pics, excellent photgraphy, and nicely sized for those of us still on dynosaur dial up.
I've got 4 or 5 machines made by White. They are Singers contemporary and in some ways better than singer. The drive wheel can still be had, and they're not expensive. I put half a clothes pin between the motor and the motor bracket to hold the drive wheel off the hand wheel. That way it doesn't flat spot. Joe |
Definitely a nice example than the ones I have. On that note, I don't seem to have a resource for "dating" a white machine head.... can any of the experts here help me out?
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When I said different, I was meaning different from my experience. I believe this is the first White Rotary I've seen, at least to study.
Are the machines you have similar, with end-caps rather than faceplates? Have you ever disassembled the needle and presser bar mechanism? It appears to me, with the removal of two screws, the end-cap containing the needle and presser bars will separate from the arm. Am I seeing this wrong? I'm sorry I can't direct you to a manufacturing date resource. Perhaps someone here having more experience with Whites can. Thank you all for your responses. |
You're correct. The end comes off. I have some older White Rotaries and that's how they work. Very nice write up.
Rodney |
I just realized something. It looks like you have your machine in a jig to work on it? Pictures of the jig please? :)
Rodney |
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including a picture of one I am stripping down for paint, I think mine is older than the one you have pictured as mine is designed for a treadle and lacks some of the features you point out. Also I have "gutted" the end cap ( removed the tensioner , springs and linkage ... just put the needle bar and presser foot bar in for the photo) but it does demonstrate how it separates.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518380[/ATTACH] |
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other differences are mine has a flat bed with no raised area, and being the bobbin winder engages the treadle belt I do not have the elegant long linkage.[ATTACH=CONFIG]518381[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518382[/ATTACH] |
oh as too cleaning... I clean my little wrinkle finish (godzilla) singer 128's with mild dish soap and water ( in a spray bottle ) a tooth brush and a clean t shirt for an initial cleaning or occasional use where you are not concerned about fading or harming pretty gold leaf decals.... even windex or 409... but be warned it is harsher than most recommend and could harm stuff.
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One other thing my machine has a completely different "clutch" set up. mine just has a spring loaded lever that engages a notch in the hand wheel .... anyone know when that change came about ?
[ATTACH=CONFIG]518389[/ATTACH] |
Video on threading machine -- for a 43 but think same as yours. Starts with winding the bobbin, then moves to threading. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9eiKXCjv80
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J Miller - I appreciate your comments on the post and I'm glad if the pictures are sized conveniently for you.
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macybaby - You have some beautiful White machines. I appreciate the chance to look, since I've not had much chance to study them. The one sort of in the middle of the group, with the cord wrapped around it, appears to be very similar to the one I posted. I especially like the machine right underneath it. And the fiddle-base at the very top. And.. and.. I like them all.
I looked for a long time at the group of pictures you posted, I believe eleven. Thank you so much for sharing them. |
greywuuf - The picture of the disassembled needle housing was exactly what I needed to see. Exactly. I can see by the wheel and eccentric remaining on the arm that the timing shouldn't be affected by taking it apart. I just needed to see. So thank you very much.
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yobrosew - Thank you for the YouTube link, I haven't had a chance to watch it yet but it sounds like just what I need for threading it properly.
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Rodney - Thanks for the confirmation that I was seeing the method of disassembly correctly.
You are right about seeing the jig or stand. I'm looking through the photos I took and don't really have a good picture of the stand. I was shooting around it and keeping it out of view as much as I could. But, I could take some pictures of it if you are interested. Briefly, it holds a sewing machine and allows for easy rotation to any position needed. It saves lifting and turning the machine and propping it up. It also protects the many fragile things protruding from the machine. With everything free and clear, a machine may be run in any position. Since its really unrelated to this post, I could post another thread if you think it would be of interest. If so, where would be the best place to post it? Here with vintage machines? |
In the picture of the needle bar "face" removed.... notice the hole in the main casting... below the "wheel" and to the right of the linkage..... use a pencil through that hole and through the linkage to line it up .... it makes it easier to get the stub of the needle bar installed.
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Got to thinking with the "Forgot a machine" thread - and realized I had forgotten one! This one sits under my ironing board. I stand next to it all the time, and forget all about it.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...psh6n207c7.jpg Though with the top on, it looks like this. http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...psa8g9fcut.jpg I do have the motor and footpedal somewhere. Took them off for safe transport. |
I want to thank all of you for the many helpful comments and tips. I don't think there is any question about the White Rotary that I didn't find the answer to from the many members here. I want to post some additional pictures requested by Rodney. I am going to put them in a separate thread, but I need some help with tags. When I posted this thread, it didn't like the tags I chose, so I just deleted them and posted anyway. Can someone tell me more about how to assign tags?
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I've been working on some other things the last few weeks. Now back to this machine, I'd like to ask if any of the mechanically inclined people here could share anything about this interesting bobbin hook movement?
It is based on the paths of two circles, different sizes, with different centers, the smaller circle located close to the edge of the larger circle. The orbits are tied together producing a one-to-one rotation with each other, but the smaller circle has a distorted timing, speeding up and slowing down within each rotation. All other rotary machines I've seen seem to have hooks that turn at two times per needle stroke. I've only seen this design associated with White machines or machines related back to White. It seems a novel and clever movement. It is as different in design and operation from modern rotary hooks as an oscillating hook would be. I'm wondering how it fits into the evolution of things. The design doesn't seem to have survived and I'm curious why. John |
I don't have that exact machine. I've got earlier and later Whites. You have me curious though. I think tomorrow I might flip a couple over and see how they work.
Rodney |
Cathy, I have a White Rotary in a bentwood case like that. The machine looks like your pretty floral ones. Too bad it is too heavy to ship. It's looking for a new home. 1926 emachine. Don't the White flywheels turn opposite of most machines?
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I use Windex, but was afraid to mention it on QB, just in case. It really works and we used it on computers at work with no harm. As long as you dry and wipe it off completely. You realize it has alcohol in it, but very little. Don't get any with vinegar, as that is an acid. It is only for really nasty, dirty, doesn't have much chance anyway, messes. I used it on a Singer Golden Touch and Sew that had smoke on it and that worked better than anything else I tried. Windex is a use at your own risk product as far as sewing machines are concerned. Not on the decals!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by greywuuf
(Post 7182055)
oh as too cleaning... I clean my little wrinkle finish (godzilla) singer 128's with mild dish soap and water ( in a spray bottle ) a tooth brush and a clean t shirt for an initial cleaning or occasional use where you are not concerned about fading or harming pretty gold leaf decals.... even windex or 409... but be warned it is harsher than most recommend and could harm stuff.
Sharon in Texas |
I have a 41 and a 44. The 44 has a phosphorus based, aluminum looking frame. As you know these models love to shed their lovely wrinkle paint in sheets. I have seen several "moulting" machines. The 44 was the worst and I had to sand it down to remove the loose places. I then primed the naked places with an aluminum primer, spray can, and it was white. It takes a lot of masking to keep it off the brownish, or black painted areas. Then, having no supply of wrinkle paint in my area, used Rustoleum, toolbox type finish. It blended very well and made the machine look great. It will be fine for my needs, but perhaps not for everyone. The paint feathered very well and I couldn't be happier. Now I just would like to find it a new home. It is sewing fine too. The model 41 will probably be a parts donor. The rubber drive wheels can be obtained from Sew-Classic.com in case some of you need them. These machines are like the Energizer bunny and Timex watches, they are practically unstoppable.
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I have been known to us Windex or even Dow Scrubbing Bubbles Bathroom Cleaner in severe cases with no decals. Joe was right, put any object between the drive and the hand wheel to keep pressure of the rubber drive wheel. I was really pleased to see that Sew-Classic.com had them now. I paid twice as much for the first one I purchased. That is the reason those drive types get junked, as people don't know there are parts still available I have a White 41 parting out if anyone needs parts. I just don't want another White machine at this time. That Rustoleum paint really made the model 44 look good. Don't repaint without using aluminum primer, because, just like airplanes, the paint won't stick around for the long haul. That's what caused the paint to come off to begin with.
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I said phosphorus when I meant magnesium, earlier. Magnesium is lighter than cast, but these machines are not light.
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