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Thread: Vintage Sewing Machine Shop.....Come on in and sit a spell

  1. #34726
    Super Member Candace's Avatar
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    Nancy per the Vintage Singer Group The 306K and the 306W do not always use the same bobbin case. The 306W use
    bobbin case # 105032 -- the open front one.

    The 306K and the 319 use #173058, the closed front bobbin case. Though, some machines can interchange...Singer started switching out the hook assemblies of the models some time during manufacturing. Did you get a 306K or W?

  2. #34727
    Super Member Candace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoJangles View Post
    Yes, I know Dan, but until I can try to sew with the machine how would I know? The machine seems to run fine with no thread. I will just have to wait until I get the correct bobbin case and see what happens. I am concerned, though, like I said there is a receipt from a Singer repair shop for "re-timing" the machine in 1976. There were lots of packages of needles with the machine - none of them the right ones for this machine. If it has been re-timed to use 15x1's wouldn't that be ok?

    Nancy
    Retiming of these is a touchy subject..but generally speaking a retimed machine to take 15 needles is not what I would want. Singer manufactured and made these machines to take the special needles and messing with that will only lessen the stitch quality. Most Singer lovers get really riled when the subject comes up, honestly. But, if it has been retimed, the 15 needle should work with the correct bobbin case in.

  3. #34728
    Super Member SewExtremeSeams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoJangles View Post
    Linda, I hope you didn't really buy class 15 bobbins for your FW and 301? Class 15 bobbins fit the class 15 machines, the 15 clones, and a few other machines. They won't work in a FW nor a 301. The FW and the 301 use a special bobbin made just for those machines!

    Nancy
    Well, maybe I didn't buy Class 15 bobbins. This is what I bought from Sew-Classics:

    http://shop.sew-classic.com/Bobbins-...?categoryId=-1

    Will these bobbins fit other Singer machines in addition to my FW and 301 machines?

    Linda

    Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now am found, was blind, but now I see.
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  4. #34729
    Super Member BoJangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SewExtremeSeams View Post
    Well, maybe I didn't buy Class 15 bobbins. This is what I bought from Sew-Classics:

    http://shop.sew-classic.com/Bobbins-...?categoryId=-1

    Will these bobbins fit other Singer machines in addition to my FW and 301 machines?
    No sorry Linda, but the bobbins that fit the FW's and 301's are unique to those machines. They won't work on any other machine.

    Nancy

  5. #34730
    Super Member BoJangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candace View Post
    Nancy per the Vintage Singer Group The 306K and the 306W do not always use the same bobbin case. The 306W use
    bobbin case # 105032 -- the open front one.

    The 306K and the 319 use #173058, the closed front bobbin case. Though, some machines can interchange...Singer started switching out the hook assemblies of the models some time during manufacturing. Did you get a 306K or W?
    Yep, just my luck! I have the 319w and now the 306w - which don't use the same bobbin case! I am glad I did not know that when I bought this machine - I may have passed it by! Jeese! I love learning, and these machines amaze me all the time! What was Singer thinking? Making 3 machines almost identical, but with different bobbin cases? No wonder these machines didn't make it for long!

    Nancy

  6. #34731
    Senior Member greywuuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candace View Post
    Retiming of these is a touchy subject..but generally speaking a retimed machine to take 15 needles is not what I would want. Singer manufactured and made these machines to take the special needles and messing with that will only lessen the stitch quality. Most Singer lovers get really riled when the subject comes up, honestly. But, if it has been retimed, the 15 needle should work with the correct bobbin case in.
    here is my concern, What does not work with the bobbin case ? it flat does not fit in the machine ? the needle hits the case? it goes in but wont pick up a thread ?

    if it wont go in the machine... yes then you are correct that the timing is not the problem. if it fits in but the needle hits, or thread does not pickup then it could well be that some adjustment is not correct.

    I have even heard tell that the later incorrect case was a singer replacement for the correct casse and was "the one to use" if you were going to retime for the 15 series needle. I have also heard told that it was a "factory approved and taught" procedure for the Scottish/UK dealers. I dont know and cant say... I do know that I used the one that came with mine, and followed the needle bar setting procedure the Hook end play and hook timing from the service manual ( and I checked the feed timing) and mine now sews correctly with reasonable thread ( no heavy upholstery stuff) at all width and length settings either straight stitch or with any of the first 10 numbered cams that I have. when I got it it was pretty prone to skipping one or more stitches per inch on any width setting above 2 (dial is maked 1-5).


    SO..... I can provide some pictures and part numbers, but not for a couple weeks when Iam home, I can provide encouragement and advice if you wish to check all the settings, and I am still curious what does not work about a 319 case ( as I may need another some day )


    Still really tickled that there is another 306 on the board and am looking forward to hearing of your adventures.

  7. #34732
    Senior Member greywuuf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoJangles View Post
    Greywuuf, Dan, did you just post something about your 306 being in a teadle? I know I saw it because I went and looked at your u-tube of you treadling the 306! I like your black machine better than the mocha 306 I just bought. Do you have any trouble with the decorative stitches when you treadle? I did when I first started treadling my 319W!

    Nancy
    I have a section of video of my 9 yo daughter testing out the cams when I got them. she was making nice satin stitched scallops and icecicles.( in the treadle base as I have no motor or mount for this machine) this is before I went through and tuned it all to spec. it does not drop near as many stitches ( none actually) as it did before. If your machine is tight and correct I see no issue with the fancy stitches. I will look at my video again when I get home and decide if I should post it or not ( I have a hard time showing my children on youtube, but it is mostly her back ... still trying to decide if I am corforatable.. or heck i can alsways make more/better video as well)


    Good luck and don't give up, if I can START my obsession with one of these odd ducks then you can Certainly handle it.
    nice to have another 306w on the board.

    Dan

  8. #34733
    Super Member Candace's Avatar
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    Dan, as I posted above there are two different hook systems and cases, depending on the W or K (factory it was made).

  9. #34734
    Senior Member melinda1962's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greywuuf View Post
    here is my concern, What does not work with the bobbin case ? it flat does not fit in the machine ? the needle hits the case? it goes in but wont pick up a thread ?

    if it wont go in the machine... yes then you are correct that the timing is not the problem. if it fits in but the needle hits, or thread does not pickup then it could well be that some adjustment is not correct.

    I have even heard tell that the later incorrect case was a singer replacement for the correct casse and was "the one to use" if you were going to retime for the 15 series needle. I have also heard told that it was a "factory approved and taught" procedure for the Scottish/UK dealers. I dont know and cant say... I do know that I used the one that came with mine, and followed the needle bar setting procedure the Hook end play and hook timing from the service manual ( and I checked the feed timing) and mine now sews correctly with reasonable thread ( no heavy upholstery stuff) at all width and length settings either straight stitch or with any of the first 10 numbered cams that I have. when I got it it was pretty prone to skipping one or more stitches per inch on any width setting above 2 (dial is maked 1-5).


    SO..... I can provide some pictures and part numbers, but not for a couple weeks when Iam home, I can provide encouragement and advice if you wish to check all the settings, and I am still curious what does not work about a 319 case ( as I may need another some day )


    Still really tickled that there is another 306 on the board and am looking forward to hearing of your adventures.
    Yep, like I said in an earlier post, it flat does not fit in the machine. There is a little peg at about 4 oclock in the race that has a matching slot in the bobbin case that slides over it. Without the slot, no go. For sure. I have both cases for my 319, and one will not go in the machine.
    Melinda

  10. #34735
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SewExtremeSeams View Post
    Well, maybe I didn't buy Class 15 bobbins. This is what I bought from Sew-Classics:

    http://shop.sew-classic.com/Bobbins-...?categoryId=-1

    Will these bobbins fit other Singer machines in addition to my FW and 301 machines?
    Quote Originally Posted by BoJangles
    No sorry Linda, but the bobbins that fit the FW's and 301's are unique to those machines. They won't work on any other machine.

    Nancy
    Actually yes the 221 - 301 bobbins will fit another machine, the Singer 9W-7. You see the 9W-7 (the Singer version of the W&W D9) used that bobbin long before the others came along.

    Joe

  11. #34736
    Super Member Crossstitcher's Avatar
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    Nancy, don't know if this will help but here is a picture of the bobbin case for a 306K. I have another one but can't get to it right now. Don't know if it has the same bobbin or not.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Quilting with a friend keeps me in stitches.

    Trish

  12. #34737
    Super Member BoJangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greywuuf View Post
    here is my concern, What does not work with the bobbin case ? it flat does not fit in the machine ? the needle hits the case? it goes in but wont pick up a thread ?

    if it wont go in the machine... yes then you are correct that the timing is not the problem. if it fits in but the needle hits, or thread does not pickup then it could well be that some adjustment is not correct.

    I have even heard tell that the later incorrect case was a singer replacement for the correct casse and was "the one to use" if you were going to retime for the 15 series needle. I have also heard told that it was a "factory approved and taught" procedure for the Scottish/UK dealers. I dont know and cant say... I do know that I used the one that came with mine, and followed the needle bar setting procedure the Hook end play and hook timing from the service manual ( and I checked the feed timing) and mine now sews correctly with reasonable thread ( no heavy upholstery stuff) at all width and length settings either straight stitch or with any of the first 10 numbered cams that I have. when I got it it was pretty prone to skipping one or more stitches per inch on any width setting above 2 (dial is maked 1-5).


    SO..... I can provide some pictures and part numbers, but not for a couple weeks when Iam home, I can provide encouragement and advice if you wish to check all the settings, and I am still curious what does not work about a 319 case ( as I may need another some day )


    Still really tickled that there is another 306 on the board and am looking forward to hearing of your adventures.
    Dan to answer your question, no the case from the 319w will not even go into this machine so I have no idea if I could pick up the thread or if the needle will hit! Without the case, the needle clears nicely, but again until I have a case and can try to pick up the thread and sew - I won't know. I will order a case today from Sew Classic. Cathy has them but does not know where they are as she just moved - finished yesterday - yikes what a job!

    I am confused, are you saying you re-timed your 306 for 15x1 needles? I wouldn't do that. I will stick with what this machine was suppose to use - unless someone else already did mess with it! In that case, I want to put it back if possible to the original settings!

    Nancy

  13. #34738
    Super Member BoJangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crossstitcher View Post
    Nancy, don't know if this will help but here is a picture of the bobbin case for a 306K. I have another one but can't get to it right now. Don't know if it has the same bobbin or not.
    Thank you Trish, that is the same bobbin case that goes into my 319w! Unfortunately, it won't even go into the 306W! I have to get the open bobbin case for the 306w! So ridiculous that Singer made the 306K and 306W use different cases! I always thought the letter only designated where the machines were made! Someone got the specs messed up between the two factories I think! Again, Candace and Melinda are right, the closed bobbin is a no go on this machine! Geeze, now I will have to look at all the machines I get that do or don't have a letter or different letter in the model number! I have always thought that letter meant nothing more than the machines were made at a different factory - everything about the machines were the same!!!!! Now we all know that letter can be a very important bit of information about the machine itself!!

    Nancy
    Last edited by BoJangles; 05-23-2012 at 05:52 AM.

  14. #34739
    Super Member BoJangles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Miller View Post
    Actually yes the 221 - 301 bobbins will fit another machine, the Singer 9W-7. You see the 9W-7 (the Singer version of the W&W D9) used that bobbin long before the others came along.

    Joe
    Joe, I have taken a couple classes on the 221/301 and always been told the bobbins were unique to those machines! What an interesting bit of information! Please post a photo of the Singer 9W -7. I have a Singer 9W. Is the 9W-7 different? I need to go take that machine out and look at the bobbin!

    What we all learn here is amazing and so much fun! This thing with the 306w and the 306k just amazes me too!

    Nancy

  15. #34740
    Super Member BoJangles's Avatar
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    Candace, look what we have all learned due to your enabling! If it weren't for you sending me the ad, I wouldn't have picked up this machine and none of us would know how important that little letter is to the model number! I still think Singer was on drugs or something when they made these machines different! I wonder how many other models made in different factories were made different or is the 306 series an anomaly? What about the 206 and 319's?

    Monica, where have you been? You like to do research!

    Nancy

  16. #34741
    Super Member SewExtremeSeams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoJangles View Post
    Joe, I have taken a couple classes on the 221/301 and always been told the bobbins were unique to those machines! What an interesting bit of information! Please post a photo of the Singer 9W -7. I have a Singer 9W. Is the 9W-7 different? I need to go take that machine out and look at the bobbin!

    What we all learn here is amazing and so much fun! This thing with the 306w and the 306k just amazes me too!

    Nancy
    I totally agree with you Nancy, it is amazing what we all learn on this site.

    Thank you Joe and Nancy for the info on the bobbins. As yet, I don't have a 9W-7, so I will be satisfied to use these bobbins on my FW and 301 machines. It is nice that 3 of my machines all use the same bobbins. I like that. Thanks again!

    Linda

    Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now am found, was blind, but now I see.
    [John Newton (1725-1807)]

    http://sewextremeseams.blogspot.com/

  17. #34742
    Super Member Candace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoJangles View Post
    Candace, look what we have all learned due to your enabling! If it weren't for you sending me the ad, I wouldn't have picked up this machine and none of us would know how important that little letter is to the model number! I still think Singer was on drugs or something when they made these machines different! I wonder how many other models made in different factories were made different or is the 306 series an anomaly? What about the 206 and 319's?

    Monica, where have you been? You like to do research!

    Nancy
    Hehe. Yes, research and the internet go hand and hand. I haven't heard about any other models having this situation where the K and W use different parts on their machines. I bet there are others. But, if someone knows other models I'd love to hear the story behind it. I do think it created a parts nightmare and agree it's not easy to remember!

  18. #34743
    Senior Member greywuuf's Avatar
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    My 306 was never set up for 15 needles as far as I know. But it did have some big time scarring of Tue case like someone may have used one anyway. It also had issues with dropping stitches in ZZ mode, as moving the needle side to side effectively changes the hook timing. I only went through and carefully set mine back to factory and it seems to work well that way (with the proper 206 class needles)

  19. #34744
    Super Member Charlee's Avatar
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    Some of the 9W's take the 221 bobbins, others take a "donut" or "bagel" bobbin like W&W 8....
    One day, you'll only be a memory for some people. Do your best to be a good one.

    http://charleeturner.blogspot.com

  20. #34745
    Senior Member sew wishful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoJangles View Post
    Ok Candace just got me in trouble - again!

    I just picked up this 306w! I don't want the cabinet - we will probably make a dump haul with it! The machine looks to be a very good shape, but it is missing its bobbin case! What is it with these bobbin cases? I only gave $25 for the machine without the bobbin case! I know the 206, 306, 319 all take a special 'L' bobbin, special 206x13 needles - so I assume the bobbin case will be hard to find! I was not willing to pay more than $25 without the case! The cabinet was full of stuff! A buttonholer, 9 feet, a couple slide plates, and 7 fashion disks so the machine was worth the price. Besides, I have a bobbin case for my 319w, so I can use either machine - the problem is a friend wants this 306w to put in a treadle so I will need to find a bobbin case! http://sacramento.craigslist.org/atq/3030319283.html

    Nancy
    So when you take a cabinet to the dump(ster) do you remove the drawers?? I was conversing with an antique/vintage store owner and she said she has such a hard time selling vintage machines, but the old cabinet drawers sell like hotcakes!! They are used as shelving on walls. This is in my neck of the woods. Don't know about other areas, but I was surprised!!
    And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose. Romans 8:28


    Randa

  21. #34746
    Super Member J Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoJangles View Post
    Joe, I have taken a couple classes on the 221/301 and always been told the bobbins were unique to those machines! What an interesting bit of information! Please post a photo of the Singer 9W -7. I have a Singer 9W. Is the 9W-7 different? I need to go take that machine out and look at the bobbin!

    What we all learn here is amazing and so much fun! This thing with the 306w and the 306k just amazes me too!

    Nancy
    Nancy,

    Here you go:
    Front:

    Back:

    Round end:

    Prickly end:

    Bobbin carrier w/bobbin:

    Bobbin comparison montage:


    In the last picture the bobbin on the left is the one out of the 9W-7. The one on the right came from our FW. Two peas from the same pod.

    I have read, that the -7 indicates the change where Singer went to the 221 style bobbin. Not positive that's correct, but it sticks in my mind.

    Joe

  22. #34747
    Super Member vintagemotif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayhare View Post
    That is a nice looking 201-2, Nancy, too bad about the case.

    Monica, I got brave and took apart my Spartan, to change the race wick. At first I thought I would just clean the area, and not change the wick, but it was pretty bad. I have a question the screw (wire spring looking) that holds the wick, did not come out, the wick came out, without any trouble. Do I have to remove the screw to put the new wick in? Any tips or suggestions. I hope I can put it back together. I have a 66-1 that will be next when the Spartan is all done. Thank you! Anamaria
    Anamaria,

    To remove the screw from ejector bar, you will have to gently turn the screw counter clockwise. Since you were able to remove wick without removing screw, you have two opinions now. You can try to remove screw to clean it up, or you can leave it. If it looks like it doesn't want to come out because of dirt and rust, try soaking it in oil for some time. If you decide to leave it just screw the wick into the screw.

    I know that you most likely want that cleaned up too since you are very meticulous in your cleaning. You machines shine beautiful after your cleaning!

    Here are some photos of that screw that you are referring to in the ejector bar. Also photos of how to cut a spool felt for the wick to fit into the spring. Plus, a photo of the wick resting against the race.

    Cleaning the race and changing the wick makes a huge difference in the quality of the stitching.
    Hopefully the photos are of help!
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  23. #34748
    Power Poster miriam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Miller View Post
    Actually yes the 221 - 301 bobbins will fit another machine, the Singer 9W-7. You see the 9W-7 (the Singer version of the W&W D9) used that bobbin long before the others came along.

    Joe
    I have an old Bernina they fit, too
    NEVER let a sewing machine know you are in a hurry.

  24. #34749
    Super Member vintagemotif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoJangles View Post

    Monica, where have you been? You like to do research!

    Nancy
    I'm here! I just thought between you, Candace, and Cathy's knowledge all would be told, and that no research would be needed. Sometimes it is interesting to see what others know and wish to share. Since I do not own a Singer 306 or 206 and I prefer machines that use 15x1 needles, there is little for me to contribute. I don't recall any interesting youtube videos, other than Dan's, or any blogs sites for any of these machines. But if I do come across one, I'll bookmark it!

  25. #34750
    Super Member jljack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Miller View Post
    Actually yes the 221 - 301 bobbins will fit another machine, the Singer 9W-7. You see the 9W-7 (the Singer version of the W&W D9) used that bobbin long before the others came along.

    Joe
    What????? We have all been told repeatedly and with certainty that those small bobbins only fit the 221 and 301. Something new every day!! That's for sure!
    Last edited by jljack; 05-23-2012 at 02:52 PM.

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