OurWorkbench

The last White I posted, a model 41, was the first White I'd seen up close. Now there is a second White to work on, a White Rotary 11. While the casting and cosmetic aspects of it are different, internally the model 11 seems mostly identical to the White Rotary 41. A picture below shows the machine.

(White Rotary 11 - Front View)
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It is different in one respect. The clutch is a type that I've never worked on before. It doesn't move very well. It feels like it needs cleaning and oiling. The large screw in the middle of the knob does not want to turn. I'm thinking that it is just rusty, needing solvent and a little coaxing, but can anyone confirm that this screw is how one begins disassembly?

(White Rotary 11 - Clutch/Stop Motion)
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Advice from anyone would be very much appreciated.

John

greywuuf

That and a set screw should be all there is, if I am remembering correctly.

OurWorkbench

Thanks for getting back. Just wanted to be sure I was going about it the right way. If I can get it apart, I'll try to take some good pictures of what's inside. This seems like more of a latch than a clutch, if I understand its operation correctly.

greywuuf

yup. not a "clutch" in the traditional sense just that little lever engages in a slot in the spoked hand wheel....my lever spring is messed up if you could get a picture of that I would appreciate it.

OurWorkbench

With a large screwdriver having a good handle to grip and a blade that fit the slot snugly, and a lot of force, the screw finally came loose. It popped loose with a crack, like it had been glued. It came out easily with fingers after that.

I had difficulty getting both the knob and the handwheel off, as well. The knob has a set screw opposite the latch. With this loosened, even removed, the knob would rotate partially and not slip off more than about 1/8 inch from where it normally is. After a couple of hours on and off, twisting the knob, it began coming off a little at a time. The handwheel, too, posed this problem at the end of the shaft, but it finally came off, like the knob.

The reason for the problem was evident with the wheel and knob off. There is a cut in the shaft that is tapered. The set screw, which is pointed, is driven into this cut in the shaft to prevent rotation. The screw in the shaft prevents the knob from coming off. The edges of this cut are ragged to the feel. There were burrs at the end of the shaft, too. Age and wear have deformed the shaft along this cut, worse at the end. It needs to be carefully restored to roundness. I'm mulling over some ways to do that, that won't make things worse. Any thoughts from anyone?

(WR11-Shaft)
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Below is a picture of the stop motion mechanism parts. In order, the large washer goes on first between the handwheel and the machine, then the handwheel, then the knob. The set screw and the shaft screw would complete the re-assembly.

(WR11-HandwheelParts)
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I have some fairly good pictures of the inside of the knob, too, with views of the spring from two angles. (greywuuf) I can take more if you need or get larger format versions to you if you need to see anything up close. The little lever can be moved one way which is stable, having the latch retracted for free motion of the wheel. Flipping the lever off of the stable point, makes it spring outward, rubbing on the inside of the wheel until it catches in the slot in the wheel. Up to almost a full rotation of the wheel could be required, for it to catch. The stable point may be seen here as a step in the latch, a little above the top edge of the spring. The latch is shown in the off-stable or spring loaded position. The gentle slope of the lever against the spring gives the lever its springy feel, up to the step, where it is then stable.

(WR11-Knob1)
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(WR11-Knob2)
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Thanks for the help.


John

greywuuf

I had the same issues removing my clutch wheel and hand wheel. I used a 6" mill file to remove the burrs once the clutch wheel was off, but my burrs were quite visible as the set screw had made some rotations around the shaft, some fine emory paper or wet dry sand paper held about the shaft while it is rotated would do the same thing only more gradually and in a more predictable manner. Thank you for the pictures of the latch spring. interestingly mine appears to be completely unlike that one.

greywuuf

mine is not quite like yours, and had some kind of wire spring inserted into the slot for the latch ( currently in the bottom of the parts can .. so no pictures of it ) it was however "sprung" either out of place or out of shape so it was not working.
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OurWorkbench

About a half hour's slow and careful work with a file and a micrometer restored the shaft of the White Rotary 11 to a more perfectly round condition. Measuring frequently as I progressed allowed me to only file away what I needed to.

(White 11 - Shaft Repair)
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The handwheel, too, needed to have some scratches removed from being forced off the damaged shaft. I did this with fine sandpaper and emery cloth along with a dowel to smooth and polish the inside of the hole.

(White 11 - Handwheel Repair)
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After filing, the shaft measured the same diameter at any angle, allowing the handwheel and clutch knob to slip on and off and to turn freely.

(White 11 - Shaft Measurements)
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After re-assembly and oiling I tried it. The disengaged handwheel will now turn for over twenty seconds, if I give it a really hard spin.

But getting the handwheel and clutch knob turning properly revealed another issue. The clutch latch does not engage the slot. The slot is slightly too narrow for it. It produces a slight detent or stopping point for the latch but it breaks loose easily.

I'm wondering if maybe the handwheel was changed for some reason and the clutch latch mechanisms were slightly different widths.

(White 11 - Clutch Latch & Slot)
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I've oiled the machine and I'm wanting to exercise it to loosen it up, but I need the handwheel and clutch to work in order to turn it.

I'm pretty sure the latch should slip fully into the slot. I'm inclined to widen the slot a little to accommodate it.

Any thoughts Greywuuf or anyone?

John

Rodney

Is it engaged in your second picture in your first post? My eyes aren't great. It's hard for me to tell, but it looks like it is. It almost looks like the tab might be in backwards in your last pictures. Did you have it apart for cleaning?
A file and sandpaper is how I would have removed the burrs too.
Rodney

OurWorkbench

Hi Rodney-

I haven't taken the latch tab on the knob apart, so it's in the same position as it was when I got the machine.

Looking at the pictures of the spring, you can see how the slope of the latch tab tends to force it outward. It is shown extended to the maximum, actually past where it would be if it fully engaged the slot. The latch works properly, applying spring pressure unless moved to the stable "off" position.

In the second picture of the first post, the latch is as engaged as it can be. Not enough. Rotating the wheel, the latch tab catches a bit on the inside of the slot, but lacking a positive hold. Turning the handwheel causes it to come loose. It will turn once around again. You can hear the tab riding on the inner surface of the handwheel flange as it seeks the slot. It will catch and come loose again and again. One couldn't run the machine this way. I can't even turn the machine by hand until I get the latch to engage reliably.

The best documentation we have is from a Franklin manual, circa 1926. The old illustrations are wonderful. The Franklin machine portrayed is like the White Rotary 11. While it's a drawing, it is very detailed and clearly shows the latch tab fully in the slot. It also seems to makes sense to positively lock the shaft knob to the handwheel, given that this is not a slip clutch design.

(Reprint from 1926 Franklin Manual)
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I'm thinking of using the hand file again. If the slot was a tiny bit bigger this would work as I believe it's supposed to.

Before I do this, what's your opinion?

John