Since I am so new to quilting I want to find out where the line is so I'm not a bad quilter. :oops: If I see a pattern in a book or on a webpage or another quilt, and make the quilt without buying said book or pattern, is it ok? Or am I stealing? I know I can't use it to make quilts to sell. But for the quilts that I give to family/friends? I'm just very confused on where the line is on all this. :?

It is just my opinion, but if you aren't making them to sell and are giving them as gifts to your family and friends, I say go for it. If you can look at it and make it.........absolutely go for it. Again, that is just my opinion and besides.....you'll be putting your own spin on it when using colors that are to your preference, I would think.

Linda D.

I agree. I have seen quilts or blocks that I thought "Hey, I can make that" without purchasing the pattern. I often get ideas from other quilts I see. I do not think it is stealing. I call it inspiration.

Its strange that this should come up now as Ive got the same problem! I was having a look at some art posters on the internet a few days ago, and found a print that I would love to turn into a wallhanging. It's a modern style print, which i dont usually go for at all but this one just caught my imagination I think! I would only be making for my own pleasure , to hang in my own house....not to gift it or sell it, so I'd be very interested in your opinions on this!
Thanks for bringing the subject up Shelly!

Karen xx

I think it's perfectly ok. I do it all the time:) If you have the skills to reproduce the pattern on your own, go for it if it's for personal use.

Shelly, I am happy that you asked the question.

There is a very fine line here. As a quilt designer and pattern maker, here is my take on the whole thing..

There is a wealth of traditional blocks that are in the public domain.. Where these are concerned, you can use them however you wish...Make them out of the same fabrics...redraft them,,,

What you cant do is take someone elses work to draft the pattern, and reproduce the pattern and distribute it in any way. That is their work.. they created the directions.. this is a definate no no. The law says that any creative endevor is owned by the creator and protected by copyright law even if it isnt registered with the copyright office.

There are antique quilts that are unique. These are owned by someone.. It is not ok, in my opinion to copy them without the permission of the owner of that quilt.. You cant use the image of these quilts either...For instance, if you saw a picture of one of my quilts on the board, downloaded and reproduced it, without my permission, that would be a no no,, If you did it and never showed it, how would I know, so you would probably get away with it, but you should just ask first.. Most people are very forgiving when asked..

Now, If you see an original piece of work.. my quilt for example, you should either ask for permission to copy, ask for a pattern you can buy, or go on to something else. Most people dont have the skills to reproduce anyway. But many people who produce original art work do not want it to be copied, and it is protected...

Ok I have reread this and Im sure you are still confused....

But I will tell you that even the professions abuse other peoples patterns and work.. So I suggest you just be as considerate as you can and dont copy a real original..

In this case it is a no no to reproduce without the permission of the creator.. However, you most likely can contact the artist and ask for permission to reproduce a version of it in your medium... fabric and most likely will receive permission,, but they will probably not want you to create and sell or give away a pattern without some commission.. It did come from their creativity...

for instance, I have done digitizing for embroidery..
on the internet I found drawings by someone and I loved them..
I sent the person an email saying how much I liked their work and could I have permission to digitize some of the drawings FOR MYSELF...
I was granted the permission (which I still have on my old computer because - sigh - I still haven't gotten around to doing anything with the drawings)...

in this case, I have permission for MYSELF, I do not have permission to sell or give away the FILES. I do NOT have permission to make lots of whatever and then sell them, I do have permission to make one and give it away, or make say for instance a shirt with one of the designs and wear it....

he did say that if I wanted to SELL somethings with his designs we could possibly work something out.

there are a blue gazillion patterns in the public domain, fabric manufacturers give away awesome patterns on their websites (free for the download)..

I wondered about the same thing... most of my chicken quilt blocks were sketched by me after looking at other chickens.

I feel this way about it: If I saw an artist's work ( like a Picasso ) and decided I wanted to try and make something in his style, I wouldn't be doing anything wrong. So why is quilting different?

I want to take selling out of the whole thinking. I know there is a thread on this board about copyrights and selling things. I'm just talking about making 1 or 2 things for myself, my family, or my friends.

With that many patterns out there....how do I know that a design that I came up with isn't already out there somewhere? How do I know that its an original? I really don't. Whos to say that on one site its free but on a different site, in different colors (the ones I'd like to do), its a pattern their selling? This is where I'm totally confused!!!! :? :? :?

Technique or style is not protected under copyright laws, so it is permissible to make a quilt inspired by Picasso's work or style because it will be substantially different from the original.

jstitch is correct. I am also a quilt designer. You can not copy someone elses work.....either for yourself or a gift ...without written permission. I don't want to sound like a meanie but someone took the time to create patterns, print them, market them, pay taxes on them......you are stealing. Plain and simple.
There are too many sites out there that offer free downloadable patterns, why not use them.
One thing that really upsets me is to see quilts in magazines or books that someone has "created" and all it is is the same tried and true quilt but with new fabrics.

Just a couple sites are:
quiltblocksgalore
claudiasquiltshoppe
paperpanache
and dozens more......just put free online quilt patterns in your search engine and see how many hits you get.

They have books at the library and I don't consider that stealing. I check out the patterns at our local libraries all the time. I'm sure that even though I"m not xeroxing them they have an influence over my quilts. I can't really follow a pattern to save my life anyway-----I think I'm a quilting dyslexic. If I need specific measurements or detailed instructions to follow, then I buy the book. Amazon has some good choices discounted.

I would say for home quilting and just general pattern ideas, you're good to go. There are tons of freebies online. If you're stressing about it, be sure to google the block or ask in here. Somone is bound to know a link. :-)

I say do your thing Shelly and don't worry about it. I doubt seriously that the quilt police are going to visit your friends and family that you choose to make quilts for. :wink:

I will also say this. Any artist in any medium should realize and accept that if they put their designs in a magazine or on the internet that they are going to be copied by anyone who likes them and chooses to try and reproduce them in a quilt in their chosen colors. It is a compliment for crying out loud. That is one aspect that I have never been able to wrap my brain around. They put their art out there for all to see and compliment and give them kudos for but by golly you better not make a copy of it even just for yourself.........selling for profit I can understand and agree with. Makes no sense to me. They should just keep if for themselves and be done with it and not tempt the rest of us who like to make nice things for ourselves.........sorry..........I'm off my soap box now.........LOL.

If you would like to flame me for my opinion, please do it with a colorful quilt picture........LOL!

Linda D.

Perhaps some of you have missunderstood the intent of the copyright laws of, not only our country, but many other countries as well.

Several things have been stated here from , "if it is within my ability to copy, then I can and its OK, to "you should be so honored for me to copy you"

I too have artwork created by someone else that I would love to make into a quilt, but have not done so. It is their creation and it is 'Stealing' to do so, for my own use or to give to someone else.

Everything in this industry has been copied and not always has the orginator of the design, technique or idea been given compensation, much less any credit for the work. It is stealing, plain and simple. It is just like copying recorded music to share with your friends. And it can be prosecuted. Just becasue you CAN do something does not make it right.

There are many many blocks out there, published in books and patterns. There is no reason that you cannot draft your own version of the pattern and make your quilt and even sell them. But if you make copies of someones cutting instructions and instructions on how to do it and distribute it, that is stealing.

If you see a set of blocks put together in a quilt and want to do it, go ahead, very few things in this industry are new..most blocks date back 100 year or more.

But if you see a unique creation, take a picture, enlarge it on your copy machine and reproduce it, you are stealing and people have been prosecuted for this activity.. and the idea that if you change just a few things to make it your own is NOT true, it is still stealing and people have been prosecuted for this as well.

And this idea that you shoud be so honored if I copy your work is the reason that many many beautiful quilts are never seen.....And now makes me wonder if my photos should be taken down off this message board...I notice that several have been downloaded multiple times...

I dont intend to take them down, but, making the point, I have seen some fantastic things that you will never see, because the creators do not want you to copy them.. as a result of this attitude, you are missing out ....

The difference,
one, is he is dead and to tell you the truth, without looking it up, I dont know who owns the copyright to his work..and
two, if you copy the style, that is not the same as copying the work.

If you make a quilt of one of his paintings.. that is stealing,, If you make your own in his style, that is not...

Not true. This is called "derivative work" and the copyright laws are very specific about it. You cannot just change colors or even the medium and be worry free. Here are some copyright myths explained.
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

Artists in all media have to expose their art to the public in order to eat. It's that simple. They have the right to be protected from those who copy their ideas and claim them as their own. Most of us will grant individuals sigular use of the work, be it a quilt pattern or graphic image or whatever, but you do not have the right to assume it has been granted just because we put it out to public view. To have your work copied without receiving acknowledgement for your efforts, be it financial or other recognition, is not a compliment. It is stealing.

I'll just say this-- If buy a pattern, I'm going to do what I want with it. If I diplay it or give it as gifts. THey got my money, they sold it!
If you design a pattern and you don't want anyone to have it, Then don't publish it for everyone to see. Once you get it on the web, you might as well think of it as a free for all.

You said it much better than I did....... :wink:

However, I have a question that is just begging to be asked at this point in time:

As a Designer of quilts, should you have to acknowledge the quilt blocks or quilts that inspired your "new" design or are you just borrowing those old designs and just expounding on them?

Linda D.

If you bought the pattern, then you are entitled to make that quilt as many times as you like,, no problem there.. but if you copy the pattern and give it to all your best friends.. that is not fair or right...see the difference?

jstitch, I download pictures from here to get a better look. Generally, I don't even keep the jpg file - I just want to see the details that I can't see on my browsers.

As an artist at various times in my life, I have had my work copied and used without my permission. It devalued MY hard work in coming up with idea, pattern, and execution. When I met and confronted the person who did it, she "tee-heed" and said I had "inspired her"

I've had clients turn down logo designs, saying they "changed their minds", only to see my design show up on their business cards months later. It is hurtful.

Most of the patchwork I do is combinations of time-worn patterns. Applique designs usually come out of my own head, then onto paper. If I have inspiration from someone, I talk to them about permission.

One thing I see happening that bothers me is people claiming copy rights on old patterns. One in particular is the mock cathedral window, which I learned in the 70s, now being renamed and claimed as "owned" by several different individuals.

Generally, yes...designers should give credit where credit is due and most of the time, I have noticed this to be true.
If I draft a traditional pattern in a different size or piecing technique, I usually disclose this.. If the design came from an antique quilt, I usually share a picture of the quilt it came from or at least disclose that fact.

If I see a quilt either in a book, shop, online, or in a magazine and I go home, get out my graph paper, draw it up for myself, make it then put it on my wall or couch, I doubt the quilt police are going to batter down my door. What's at the heart of this discussion is intent. ]If what you want to make is for you and that's the intended purpose, then what "law" has been broken? none that I can think of. Let's face it, as quilters we are inspired by the work of others, whether it be a color scheme, a block layout, or a technique. Don't be scared to try out something new that you see, because in all truth, aside from art quilts, there's probably not one truly new block that hasn't been done already. Do you NEED to always buy the pattern? I say no. Just because something is published doesn't mean I'm obligated to purchase it when I'm perfectly capable of recreating it for myself. My intent just for me. Now, putting that same quilt I just made either on a website, or in a show, would obligate me to credit my ispiration or the original creator of where I got my idea. Then, the copyright scenario comes into play. If I did that, then my intent would be to gain recognition or credit for myself. Do you see where I'm going with the intent?

Hey Moonpi, I wasn't saying that everyone who downloaded my pictures were doing so to copy or "be inspired" by them.. sorry if that is the way it came across.

My statement was more to the fact that some posts here actually were indicating that if I shared my work then it was theirs to copy.. That is the point to which I was taking exception..

You can look all you want and Im happy that you want to see the details.. As a matter of fact if you want to see something that doesnt show up, let me know.. Ill send you a better pic...

Exactly!

Linda D.

This bothers me too, Moonpi. And I have done a lot of thinking about this one. Here is what I have decided about that...

The designs of these old blocks that are in the public domain are just that, in the public domain. I can draft my own version of the design or even new techniques in construction and publish a pattern.. That pattern or instruction sheet is my work.. that is what is copyrighted, not the block or technique

And people who take the original content and try to copyright it, I do not believe is legal.. I have seen that too.. but I will have to do some more checking on that,, it is like republishing the a literary work that is in the public domain and calling it yours.. not

Babeegirl, I believe that is what has been said here. As I said in my original post, drafting your own version of a block is not stealing.. or even putting the same blocks together into a quilt...or using the same coloring and values.. all fine in my book..

The stealing comes in from copying original works, and some block quilts are very original, taking credit, free distribution of purchased patterns, and copying a piece of original art from another medium..

I agree, but I think we went way deeper than the original poster's posed question which can be very daunting. Heck, I sure don't post someone else's instructions claiming it as my own but I'm definitely not rich enough to buy every pattern I see. I'm not rich enough yet to pay someone else to do my thinking for me :)

shelly, if you are talking about any basic pieced block, you are free to draft your own, make the block , make a quilt, for yourself, friends, family and even sell the work.. I doubt you are going to get into trouble doing that. The real problem arises in original art and that is where the trouble begins...some things are obviously someone elses creation..
I believe that there is very little in the way of pieced blocks that are original and they have been used, borrowed and reborrowed many times over..
babeegirl is right we did get rather deep here, but that indicates that there are some serious issues with copying..do draft up all the blocks you want, but dont copy GKs clock quilt...its not a block but an original..

jstitch and moonpi,
You two seem to be the experts on this, so I'll ask you to clarify something for me...
You're saying that if I buy the book -- let's say I subscribe to Fons and Porter's Love of Quilting magazine -- then I have permission to make the quilts, even for sale? Is that right? Or is it OK for me to make them for personal use/gifts only?
I have much more experience in copyright with sheet music, so this is a whole new area for me. And it's not at all the same.
Thanks for your patience and experience here.

Well, I for one am taking all my pics off this board and will no longer be a part of this forum if so many people think it's ok to steal!!

Good by

Well, Id love to hear Moonpi weigh in on this too.

The patterns are owned by the magazine. Most of the time, what is published in a magazine as a pattern is assumed for you personal use. If you want to make it for sale, they are protected by copyright law. Mostly this is to protect someone from taking the design and mass producing it for sale.

If you make one for your sister, and charge her for your time, you probably arent going to get in trouble, but if you are making a dozen to sell in a craft sale, it begins to cross the line. If I want to make one to sell, or to make for an opportunity quilt, Ill ask permission. It is the right thing to do.


However, many times a magazine will publish a picture of an inovative work and no pattern.. That is not OK to reproduce. As a matter of fact, many times you will find a comment in the magazine to that effect if you read the fine print.

As in music,,,a traditional tune, in the public domain is free for you to use and create your own composition of the tune.. that composition is yours and subject to copyright law.. someone else cant record your version or composition of the tune without your permission.. Would you give it,, probably..maybe even get some commission for it...

My opinion only

I would hate to see you do that.. I made the comment about pictures on this board as an example of what could happen.

And I think that the truth is, most of the people who have that opinion really couldnt reproduce your work anyway..

I, for one, enjoy your posts and dont want to see you leave over a few mis spoken comments

Most of the time, on this board, when I read people wanting to make a quilt they have seen, they are asking where they can buy the pattern..

And this thread has served as an educational tool for those that really never thought about it in these terms before

If you want to display it or sell it, get permission. Most "serious" quilt shows will actually ask if you have used a commercial pattern and require you to obtain written permission to display a quilt made from that pattern. I have had letters from people to that effect when they made a quilt from a pattern on my website.

Copyright law is a very interesting and complicated issue. Ebay has a HUGE problem with it! If you look up "custom boutique" little girls clothing, you will see literally HUNDREDS of Disney, Dora the Explorer, Hello Kitty, and other "character" outfits. And, unfortunately for the honest designers, those are the ones that sell for hundreds of dollars. I would never make one to sell. If I want to make my granddaughter a Minnie Mouse costume, however, I am not going to feel that I need to write Disney to get permission.

OK, one last comment from me then its back to work...

If you are borrowing something, it indicates that you are going to give it back..

So is it borrowing?

I think babeegirl explained what I was thinking better than I did. Thanks babee! The quilts I was thinking about are just pieced blocks. Many times I only know the finished size. No directions. So I take pencil to paper and graph it out. I'll even change the size to what I want too.
GK's quilt is WAY, WAY beyond my skill level. But I get your point.
Thanks everyone.
I just don't want to steal something, even inadvertantly.

The copyright issue is one reason I stopped teaching classes from commercial books or patterns. I had to make samples for all those classes, and I wanted to sell the samples afterward. (we're talking about at least 50 samples a year!) Now I just design and draft all the patterns for the classes I teach, and I don't have to worry about it.

It's also hard to decide what is a copyrighted image/design. A flag bargello quilt? I've seen hundreds of them, all different. I could do one without a pattern if I wanted to make one. A colorwash quilt? A French Braid? I borrowed that book from the library and realized that it was just an identical pattern to one I've seen around for years. A baby quilt made in that "Mock Cathedral Windows" style? Fons and Porter have a copyright on it in their magazine. There is at least one website with a copyright on it (older than the F&P magazine). And I learned that pattern 18 years ago at a quilt guild meeting. It's not exactly a new technique, but people can publish patterns for it and claim they hold a copyright, even if it's identical to an older idea.

It's all very complicated... I don't think anyone here plans to steal an idea and profit from it. If you have a quilt that you don't want anyone to copy, however, don't post pictures of it! That's not a legal issue... it's just common sense.

I too am a new quilter and now I am confused. Are you all saying that I can not look at a picture, make a quilt like it with my own fabric and colors and use it or sell it? That does not make sense because most of the ones i like are free so I am sooooo confused? Please help!!!!!! :?

Miss Tami, there are tons of free blocks without copyright issues at all. The problems begin when people take credit for designs that are not theirs. Early on, when I first joined the board, there were some very heated threads on the subject.

I expect it to be a problem as long as their are designers, designs, and people who think just because they CAN do something, that they are entitled to. It is the same argument as movie performers have with bootleg Chinese DVDs, and musicians run into with downloads from certain websites. I have actually had a couple of people get snippy with me when they requested I send them a link to a pattern I used, when it was drawn out on a paper bag while watching my cat sit in a window. If I had the means to get it into a file for the person who requested it, how do I know that it will not be "unattributed" and become public property, or claimed as someone else's work?

I think it will be even more of a problem going forward, as longarmers are producing some kick*ss designs on tops made by others, and sometimes designed by another party entirely. It is possible that a single quilt could have 2 designers and 2 people executing the designs. If another person custom dyed the fabric, or an artist embellished the final work, it could end up with a list of credits like a movie!!! I think that is one reason why -for good or bad - I do mine every step of the way. I have bought patterns and books over the years,, but use them more as technique tutorials and eye candy.