Antique browsing, but what am I looking at?
04-09-2014, 08:29 AM
#11
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One other note - but the times machines came in the more "Modern" style, there weren't all that many US Mfg still in the game. And more and more went out of the picture as time when on - with some becoming only "Brand Names" no longer making their own machines.
At the time these machines were made, the major US players were National, White, New Home, Standard and Free.
SInger too -but since Singers are so easy to identify and they didn't put other names on their machines, they aren't really a concern. Wilcox & Gibbs too, but again you won't them.
Davis and Domestic went out around the 20's (I'm pretty sure, not going to look up dates right now)
in the 1895-1920 there were several more companies, and before that there were a LOT more companies making machines (they type that SteveH is after).
There are a lot of foreign companies, but I'm not trying to learn about them. My main area is top clamp US made machines around 1895-1940 era.
At the time these machines were made, the major US players were National, White, New Home, Standard and Free.
SInger too -but since Singers are so easy to identify and they didn't put other names on their machines, they aren't really a concern. Wilcox & Gibbs too, but again you won't them.
Davis and Domestic went out around the 20's (I'm pretty sure, not going to look up dates right now)
in the 1895-1920 there were several more companies, and before that there were a LOT more companies making machines (they type that SteveH is after).
There are a lot of foreign companies, but I'm not trying to learn about them. My main area is top clamp US made machines around 1895-1940 era.
04-09-2014, 09:16 AM
#13
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Foley & Williams made a machine for Sears branded as the Minnesota. It's basically a Goodrich High Arm.
The top tension is not quite the same, but the base and location of the stitch length and the location and type of bobbin winder look more F&W than National. They are two very similar machines like this, probably had some of the same people working on them, and sometimes they were made at the same plant too.
I'd never use something like an inspection plate to tell for sure what the machine is - I've seen way too many machines missing them, and the people will put on what they find available. And it could have happened 60 years ago, when the machine would have still been considered "vintage".
Also - often times the underside is the key to figuring things out. Companies often copied exterior designs that weren't patented.
I've got a National made machine that looks just like a New Home, which is very distinctive. In fact, it does not look like any of the other National machines. The underside is very different from a New Home though.
The top tension is not quite the same, but the base and location of the stitch length and the location and type of bobbin winder look more F&W than National. They are two very similar machines like this, probably had some of the same people working on them, and sometimes they were made at the same plant too.
I'd never use something like an inspection plate to tell for sure what the machine is - I've seen way too many machines missing them, and the people will put on what they find available. And it could have happened 60 years ago, when the machine would have still been considered "vintage".
Also - often times the underside is the key to figuring things out. Companies often copied exterior designs that weren't patented.
I've got a National made machine that looks just like a New Home, which is very distinctive. In fact, it does not look like any of the other National machines. The underside is very different from a New Home though.
04-09-2014, 09:34 AM
#14
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BTW - if someone can take the width of the throat plate - the (round/flat) is the edge that hits the needle plate.
These are the Manufactures - not the Badged name, but this does help on US machines to figure out the actual Mfg. Some of the plates "sort of" fit others, but the needle plate is in a slightly different location so they do not line up right.
The Foley is 1.07" (round)
New Home is 1.209 (round)
Free (older) is 1.69" (Round) * later made Free were a copy of Singer
Eldredge (older) is 1.166 (round)
Seamstress (National that looks like a New Home) 1.166" (round)
National is 1.175" (round)
Davis is 1.185" (flat)
New Royal is 1.20" (flat)
White is 1.15" (flat)
Standard is so odd shaped that nothing is like it 1.152"
Household and Domestic (older) are oval, though I've not measured witdth yet *late made Domestic also a copy of Singer (cause that is what Sears wanted) however after White got the name, they are different again.
I've got three more I've not measured yet.
These are the Manufactures - not the Badged name, but this does help on US machines to figure out the actual Mfg. Some of the plates "sort of" fit others, but the needle plate is in a slightly different location so they do not line up right.
The Foley is 1.07" (round)
New Home is 1.209 (round)
Free (older) is 1.69" (Round) * later made Free were a copy of Singer
Eldredge (older) is 1.166 (round)
Seamstress (National that looks like a New Home) 1.166" (round)
National is 1.175" (round)
Davis is 1.185" (flat)
New Royal is 1.20" (flat)
White is 1.15" (flat)
Standard is so odd shaped that nothing is like it 1.152"
Household and Domestic (older) are oval, though I've not measured witdth yet *late made Domestic also a copy of Singer (cause that is what Sears wanted) however after White got the name, they are different again.
I've got three more I've not measured yet.
04-09-2014, 09:41 AM
#15
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 8,140
Another difficulty with MN named machines - Sears often gave the Mfg specs to follow - so they may be a bit different looking than what you'd otherwise see for that company.
It is what helped put Davis out of business. Sears wanted a machine that looked like a Singer - and gave the contract to Domestic as they could do it. The Domestic that Sears sold looks nothing like the earlier Domestic made machines (both are before White got Domestic). The Domestic even took the same shuttle and needle as Singer, that is what the customers wanted.
It is what helped put Davis out of business. Sears wanted a machine that looked like a Singer - and gave the contract to Domestic as they could do it. The Domestic that Sears sold looks nothing like the earlier Domestic made machines (both are before White got Domestic). The Domestic even took the same shuttle and needle as Singer, that is what the customers wanted.
04-09-2014, 10:44 AM
#18
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,091
Originally Posted by Macybaby
ok- I admit - I'm rather addicted to these old machines. And if anyone wants to come and see all the different ones, when I get my building done you are more than welcome to visit!
One thing about the accessories and the needle plate dimensions, some day you should put that info in a concise package as a reference book. I'd buy one.
Joe
04-09-2014, 01:45 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Happily @ Southwest Florida
Posts: 999
Jim...that is a lovely machine, it would have made me take a second look, now I look at all the machines I find, but I'm as sucker for the pretty decals now. What got me started on this vintage kick was a 99 in a cabinet at a flea market for $40.00 that needed some TLC. It runs fine and off I went in search of other treasures. Thanks for all the info you guys have left here, my husband often spots them before I do and each time I learn more about the machines and can identify most of the Singers....(lol that's because a good many of them are in my sewing room now)....Would love to see your collection Cathy...will just have to wait for your updates.
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